Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for inviting us to speak to your committee. l'm Darren Kitchen. I'm the government relations director at the Co-operative Housing Federation of B.C. I think—in fact I know, because he told me so—that Nicholas Ga

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  The challenge isn't so much in establishing the co-op, which is really just filing a bunch of papers; it's doing the land and the buildings. I mentioned that this isn't just a challenge for us. There is very little new rental housing development in Vancouver at all.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Yes, and the reason it is so hard to develop co-ops is the same reason it's so hard to develop market rental buildings. The land costs are very high. The construction costs are very high. It's much better for developers—who after all have to make a profit, have to keep the lights

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I think it's certainly true that the closer you get to the ground the more aware the people there are of what's actually necessary. My personal belief is that it can't be a blank cheque. Outcomes have to be part of that, right, because what can happen is the province gets the mon

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I would be surprised if, given a large cash payout on a mortgage, CMHC couldn't find a way to invest that money to generate a return to pay the bondholders. As well, if the co-op were to pay the full interest that would have been owed, CMHC gets to invest its money twice. It gets

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  CHFBC so far works with non-profit co-ops. That's our membership.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  We don't yet, but we do think that a niche is emerging in the housing market for affordable ownership.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I think there's been some protectiveness of the brand, if you like, on the part of some of the non-profit co-ops. I think that would be one way to put it.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  It's typically a five-year term.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Yes, they are.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I think so, yes. It's a bit before my time.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Yes. It's low because it refinanced recently. I believe it's something like 1.64%.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I would hope that somebody could give such direction. I'm not sure of the relationship between CMHC and the government. I know they're a crown corporation, but—

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I would believe so, yes. We aren't trying to flee the mortgage for a lower rate. We would actually pay a higher rate to a commercial lender, Vancity, in our case. But it would seem to me that if someone were presented with a couple of million dollars and told to invest it, they

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Some of the first ones have already come up. Some of the early co-ops are—