Finance committee  I think you have to look at individual situations. I'll run you through ours quickly. Our situation is very simple. We converted in 2005. The three choices we had were these: to attempt to merge with another company, and that failed; to sell to the company.... The only offers we had were from American companies, at what I felt was a discounted value to the assets.

Finance committee  A bit. I was listening in on Pierre's discussion. One of the things they understand, for you gentlemen who are from Quebec and Ontario, is that the increase in the Canadian dollar impacts the resource sector. When you're trading oil at $70, and it's an 80¢ dollar, that's the equivalent of $90 oil at par.

Finance committee  Yes.

Finance committee  If you look at the stock market, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of incremental buyers out there right now. When you see Fortress Mountain duplicated on the stock market, there are not a lot of incremental buyers.

Finance committee  None.

Finance committee  Sorry? The yield was sustainable?

Finance committee  We weren't paying 15%, we were paying about 8% before your decision. We're paying about 15% right now, because their stocks have gone down 40% to 50% in value. That's where the 15% yield comes from.

Finance committee  I'm talking specifically about our company, but I think anecdotal.... Certainly the coalition will attempt to get some more information on U.S. ownership. But we've seen an increase generally in U.S. ownership of the funds over the past year and a general walking away from the Canadian retail side.

Finance committee  At the time of conversion, we were some 40-odd percent, in the low forties, on U.S. ownership. Now we would see ourselves, our foreign ownership, at about 60% or a little over 60%, so to us that's a dramatic increase. Commenting about the sector, it seems that there are certain individuals in the corporate world who figure there's only one model, some of whom seem to have the Prime Minister's ear.

Finance committee  No.

Finance committee  I think we've provided estimates to the committee. I know Dennis Bruce as well has done a representation—not on our behalf, but to the committee—as has Yves Fortin. We would look to those types of numbers. Basically, the income trusts were set up as a flow-through vehicle. So we don't buy the fact that there's any leakage in taxation.

Finance committee  Yes, they were paying a 15% withholding tax. I guess one thing to advise the committee of is that they weren't receiving any of the benefits that Canadians do from paying taxation within the country; so they don't use our infrastructure, they don't use our health system. They were paying a pure 15% surtax, I guess you would call it.

Finance committee  I think the other thing to remember, Mr. Richardson, is the size of the sector itself. Anyone who has an investment portfolio will know that you probably invest in some U.S. stocks, and if those stocks pay dividends, you pay a percentage of tax in Canada. That's what trade agreements are for and it's what financial agreements between countries are for, so you can finance sectors.

Finance committee  No.

Finance committee  Yes, and nothing.