Agriculture committee  No. HACCP is beyond the regulations.

Agriculture committee  It's absolutely a concern, because it does hold back any type of moving forward. We recognize that for a national meat program you would have to have the provinces all updating their regulations. One of the questions earlier was who would do the inspection, but I don't think that's the question.

Agriculture committee  As I said, I have been with the organization for 30 years. We couldn't wait for all the other provinces. We have tried to work.... As an example, the province worked with the Alberta government when Ontario developed a HACCP program. Because we were provincially registered, the federal government could not recognize a HACCP system in a provincial plant.

Agriculture committee  Yes.

Agriculture committee  Ontario meat regulation built the HACCP principles into it. For the other provinces, until they've updated their meat inspection act and their regulations to put those principles in, there isn't a program out there. Certain third party companies can come in and put a HACCP system in place for you and monitor it, but the recognition is missing.

Agriculture committee  If I could comment on the call for the one inspection system—I think that's where our challenge is—and all the work that has been done since 2000, there are a number of standards being thrown out there. There was the meat hygiene standard, which we said we could meet. Then there's always going to be a requirement for trade, which is above and beyond.

Agriculture committee  That's some of the challenge. The answer is, yes, CFIA is the organization that is responsible for recall, but in Ontario, as part of our Ontario Meat Regulation 31/05, there is a mandatory requirement for all of those 500 licenced abattoirs and free-standing meat plants to have a recall program in place.

Agriculture committee  In Ontario Regulation 31/05, and I can't speak to the other provinces, there is a mandatory requirement that in every business there be a supervisor on site who has taken food handler training. Our organization has invested in further education and promoting the highest level of food safety, understanding, in that whole food safety culture, that it's not when an inspector comes in that you start adopting those principles.

Agriculture committee  There are a number of programs. Our province holds the Foodland Ontario program that has been around forever and primarily started in the fruit and vegetable marketplace and still has the highest recognition for that. Processors who meet the definition for Ontario made are entitled to do that.

Agriculture committee  The Ontario industry is a bit unique in that, because we have these other, as I refer to them, free-standing meat plants, it's quite integrated. So Cory's operation as an abattoir can sell his fresh beef and fresh pork to this further processor, which turns it into hams or bacons or whatever, and then it is sold either at a store on site or by other retail stores.

Agriculture committee  Yes.

Agriculture committee  We have provincially licensed plants that are shipping directly into Sobeys Ontario warehouse with distribution across Ontario, and they are back into the Loblaws chain where historically they had a procurement policy that they would not buy—

Agriculture committee  One of the challenges is that the federal meat inspection program has been changing over the years. When the first national meat code or the meat hygiene standard was being developed, we were as a province developing a meat regulation to parallel it. Obviously there were some other trade requirements that were beyond that, but from a food safety perspective we felt, and back in 2002 it was deemed to be, equivalent.

Agriculture committee  There are 500 provincially licensed plants. Of those, only 132 are abattoirs. Ontario is unique in that it's the first province to actually require licensing of those who are further processing. In what Ontario calls an FSMP there is no slaughter component. Cory mentioned that he does both, but he's in the count of the 132 abattoirs.

Agriculture committee  Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. Interprovincial trade is something we've been very interested in for some time. To give a little background, I am, as you mentioned in your introduction, the executive director. We are a provincial organization. We are the representative voice of the independent meat and poultry processor in Ontario.