Veterans Affairs committee  Close to $9,000, that's right.

Veterans Affairs committee  Any combination thereof.

Veterans Affairs committee  The program has an income element and a disability element to it.

Veterans Affairs committee  It could be. It would vary for a number of reasons.

Veterans Affairs committee  I can't speak offhand to the number of people, but certainly there are many VIP recipients who would receive a groundskeeping element that they would normally not get from their provincial home care programs, as you have suggested.

Veterans Affairs committee  Absolutely.

Veterans Affairs committee  That's right. Do they have the capacity? Do they have the resources? That assessment would take into account all their capacities and strengths and then all the deficits that would exist as well.

Veterans Affairs committee  It's a little deeper than that. If they have the physical capability and the general ability and wherewithal to do it, we don't go and assess somebody as having the capacity to do it when they're sitting there saying that, for a variety of other reasons, they can't. But we certainly don't impose that on them either.

Veterans Affairs committee  Thank you. First of all, I don't know offhand what the answer is for the administrative costs associated with the program, but we can get that information for you, if you wish. As for how services are provided, let me explain a little bit how the system works, and that may help you to understand.

Veterans Affairs committee  But in some situations, we do have a role in evaluating the services provided. I talked about the quality assurance measures we take and how we watch and monitor what goes on in provinces and facilities where veterans live. Perhaps more importantly, in some of the contract bed facilities that we have—Maison Paul-Triquet and CHUL in Quebec—we sometimes do have specialized programming and other types of programming in those facilities, and we undertake regular analysis of those types of programs to ensure they meet the outcomes that we've set forth.

Veterans Affairs committee  Do you mean the one connected to the survivors?

Veterans Affairs committee  I can't comment on that. It's fairly new, and I don't know if there are any results on it. We could find out and get back to you, if that's of interest to you.

Veterans Affairs committee  Do you mean the VIP program?

Veterans Affairs committee  When I was a social worker travelling around northern Ontario delivering the VIP program about 20 years ago, I was the envy of every colleague who came out of my school because I was essentially delivering something incredible. Veterans are ecstatic about the DVA guy or gal showing up, sitting down with them, running through the various benefits that they're eligible to receive, mutually formulating an agreement with them on what they can do and what we can do, and putting those services in place.

Veterans Affairs committee  Each of those situations is always very individual, but we have very good people in the field as social workers, nurses, and other health professionals. Our approach has always been to work very closely with clients to identify both their strengths and the areas where they need help.