Finance committee  Good afternoon. My name is Jean-Pierre Laporte. I'm a lawyer practising exclusively in the field of pensions and benefits in the city of Toronto. I have been actively involved in pension reform issues since 2003 and have published a number of articles in this area. Some of you may be familiar with one particular policy idea I first proposed in 2004 calling for the creation of a supplemental Canada pension plan.

Status of Women committee  If I could add something on financial literacy, I'm of a view that it's fine for people to know how to manage their finances, handle credit, to take care of obligations, but I don't believe Canadians should be experts at investing in the stock markets. MPs and senators belong to a very generous pension plan, and none of you has asked to be thinking about whether you go into bonds or foreign equities.

Status of Women committee  I did not take part in those consultations, but I can give you my opinion on it.

Status of Women committee  In the complementary system to the Canada Pension Plan, or in the parallel plan in Quebec under the Régime des rentes du Québec, the perverse effects need to be avoided, meaning penalizing individuals who set aside savings for their retirement. When someone contributes to a TFSA—or CELI in French—it doesn't count as pension income, guaranteed minimum income.

Status of Women committee  I would be pleased to send you my notes on this matter.

Status of Women committee  It's not all RRSPs. If you invest your RRSP moneys into exchange-traded funds, or bonds, or GICs, you would not be paying those types of management expense ratios. If you are in international equities especially, you would be in that range. It depends on the company, and I don't want to make any generalizations, but there is a Harvard study out there that has looked at the fees charged across the developed world, and Canada ranks at the very top.

Status of Women committee  Yes, I am very aware of how the tax-free savings account rules work.

Status of Women committee  Sure. The idea is that if you are in a small business and you can barely make the payroll in paying minimum wage, typically you would not be a candidate for a registered pension plan. You would not even offer a group RRSP, or you might where it is only employee contributions and you administer it on behalf of the members.

Status of Women committee  That is a very good point. Everyone always says that you can't draw blood from a stone, and that is a real problem when incomes are so low that it may not even be economically efficient to be saving. It might be better to pay down debt or do other things with your money rather than put it into a tax-sheltered plan.

Status of Women committee  The problem lies in the Income Tax Act, which says that you cannot have a pension plan unless there is an employment relationship, meaning T4 income. If you have someone working in the home, someone who is not remunerated, that person is shut out from the whole registered pension plan world.

Status of Women committee  Committee members, my name is Jean-Pierre Laporte. I am a pension lawyer with the firm of Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP, in their Toronto office. I've been practising in the field of pension law since 2001. I was a member of the executive of the pension and benefits law section of the Ontario Bar Association.