Status of Women committee  It will be clawed right back.

Status of Women committee  Yes, I would be.

Status of Women committee  I agree with you: pay women what they're worth.

Status of Women committee  I saw that earlier in the transcripts and thought, what a great idea. All people are getting is basically what's on the front page of The Globe and Mail, which is not the whole picture. There are no women in the picture. I think a summit that brought everybody to the table, including the corporations and the partners, and involved them in the process would be a way first to get it on the agenda.

Status of Women committee  One thing that comes to mind, which nobody has mentioned around here, is the cost of elder abuse and what we are doing to older people. There is a huge initiative on the part of this government, which is excellent. When the seniors benefit was proposed, for example, my first thought was that here was a perfect situation for elder abuse in which women do not have the power, and the ultimate power is to be beaten up.

Status of Women committee  Well, thank you.

Status of Women committee  I can't answer that. I'm not a pension expert; I'm a retirement expert. The defined pension plans are far better than defined contribution plans, so that may be one way to go. I have read all the transcripts and all the suggestions that have been made, and I realize that was one of them.

Status of Women committee  I can't do pensions. I'm not a pension expert.

Status of Women committee  I like the social part.

Status of Women committee  I would. Absolutely.

Status of Women committee  I think you need to talk about it. Maybe you need to talk about how it's a perfect example of how good it could be, or maybe it's a little fat. We have no resources, supposedly, and I'm starting to think that maybe we really have to target more to people who really need it. Universalism is fabulous, but the truth of the matter is that when we get down to brass tacks about who needs to be protected in our society, it's the people who are poor, and there are lots of them.

Status of Women committee  They often use the government to pay for their unemployment. They shut down for a month, and the government pays.

Status of Women committee  I can only talk to these two latest research projects that we've done. What we found is very fascinating. It's wonderful that you came from a family with 10 people, because those 10 kids helped out. Kids help out in various ways. One of the ways they help us is with money, or purchasing, or driving, or shopping.

Status of Women committee  Absolutely. I totally agree with you. If you want that document, it's by Hollander, Lou & Chapel, and they have estimated the low end is $24 billion and the high end is $25 billion for what we do.

Status of Women committee  No, I don't know the exact figures, but I also know of another really fine piece of research done by Chapel as well, comparing the cost of putting someone in an institution and keeping them in the community. Up until a certain threshold, it's way cheaper to keep someone in the community than to put them in an institution.