Finance committee  I can't speak to this case because I don't have all the facts, first of all, and I don't know exactly what transpired. I'll be honest, I don't know that I have a full understanding of your question as it relates to CGI and what they needed to do to get la subvention.

Finance committee  But that's under a different jurisdiction.

Finance committee  We look at four factors in trying to determine whether it's a PSB—in other words, whether it's an employee versus an independent contractor. The first factor we look at is control. Control means we look to see whether the payer of the service controls the what, when, and where: what the worker does, how the worker does his business, and where he does his business.

Finance committee  With regard to your first question, it is indeed just one example. It is a question of fairness. When the act was amended in 1981, the objective was to be fair both to employees and individuals the Revenue Agency considers to be employees. It was just an example to illustrate the principle.

Finance committee  The Canada Revenue Agency has a team that monitors large employers. The members of this team ensure that these large employers pay the taxes that they owe. If I understand you correctly, you are asking me if we make a referral when we carry out an audit.

Finance committee  I would refer you back to section 241 of the act that prevents us—

Finance committee  I would like to add that we work under the Income Tax Act. Subsection 125(7) helps us make a determination about a personal services business, or PSB.

Finance committee  As a point of clarification, I would like to say that what we are talking about is whether the person being audited was contacted.

Finance committee  I will ask my colleague, the director of technical applications, to respond.

Finance committee  I will answer part of your question and then ask my colleague to follow up. As a general rule, the CRA's auditor will contact the person who is being audited. Referrals of cases from the Quebec region are the exception. That issue was raised earlier. I cannot say whether contact is established in such situations.

Finance committee  Yes, I do. May I begin?

Finance committee  Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Lucie Bergevin and I am the Director General of the Audit Professional Services Directorate. With me today are Mr. Wayne Adams, Director General of the Income Tax Rulings Directorate, and Ms. Susan Betts, Director of Technical Applications.