Justice committee  If I had more sway, then victim services would have a lot more resources. First, I'll say this. One of the dangers in over-promising when it comes to victims' rights, and there's some research that supports this, is that if you tell victims this and you raise their expectations, and then they go into a system and those expectations fall very short, it's actually worse than doing nothing at all.

Justice committee  There are a couple of things I want to put to you. If the provinces are on board, then this will have no impact at all. Quite frankly, if this bill was going to bring in fundamental change, I think you'd be hearing the provinces scream more loudly than they are now. I don't know how much consultation was done, but I think the fact that they've been fairly silent suggests that they don't really see much of a change here from what they have in their own victims bill of rights.

Justice committee  Mr. Chair, thank you to the committee for allowing me to come to testify on Bill C-32. I am here as an individual, but I come with a wide range of experience. I was formerly the federal ombudsman for victims of crime. I currently work in an organization called Ottawa Victim Services, which is a front line, community-based agency that works with victims of crime.

Public Safety committee  I think the impact will be small simply because there are very few offenders in the federal system who have restitution orders or victim fine surcharge orders from the courts. Certainly, we've heard frustration from victims about offenders not being ordered to pay restitution.

Public Safety committee  If we lived in a perfect world, we wouldn't need prisons; we wouldn't have offenders. In an ideal world, which we do have, if an offender were to receive compensation from the government or another place, then he would freely turn around and provide that restitution to the victim that he created.

Public Safety committee  I think it could be. In Bill C-10 there is, I think, more of an emphasis on encouraging offenders, as part of their correctional plan, to repay restitution orders and victim fine surcharges and those kinds of things. I know that the Province of Saskatchewan has a program whereby the province provides assistance to victims, not in federal prisons, but just overall, in getting offenders to repay restitution orders.

Public Safety committee  It's not well advertised, in part because it's a fairly small program. It's a fairly lengthy program, and in any one case, there's no structure to it.... It's really victim-driven. There are cases that go on for years because victims decide they want to step back, and then maybe they want to meet, or they don't want to meet but have letters exchanged.

Public Safety committee  We could spend all afternoon talking about the number of different things. I think this bill has a very specific focus. It's very targeted. With respect to the discussion about the residential school settlements, I think that on a practical level that would be a very small problem.

Public Safety committee  It would probably be a funding issue. I certainly can't speak for those who run the program. I want to be clear about that. I think they would be hesitant about expanding it too largely, because there aren't all that many people who are experts at doing those kinds of meetings.

Public Safety committee  I won't speak for the other witness, but my sense would be that if someone.... I respect the apology and I listened to the apology, like many Canadians, and on the settlements that are being given, I understand why and how that's being done. But I think the principle, though, is that someone who is receiving compensation from the government for being victimized would then not compensate the person they victimized—court-ordered restitution or whatever the case may be.

Public Safety committee  I can say that restitution is unfortunately rarely ordered by the courts, and most often it is for property offences. One of the requirements of the code is that you have an actual set amount. If it's a broken TV and I know that my TV cost $500, I can give that to the court. Courts have discretion around providing orders of restitution in non-property related expenses, but those are often difficult to quantify.

Public Safety committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the invitation. My opening remarks this afternoon will be fairly brief. I should just say that I've been working with victims in various roles for almost 20 years as an advocate and, as you mentioned, as the former ombudsman. Currently I work with Ottawa Victim Services, which is a smaller community agency here in Ottawa, but I'm here as an individual representing my own personal views.

Justice committee  —I will give you names.

Justice committee  Yes.

Justice committee  Let me clarify. I have heard those voices.