Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  First of all, let me say I think I'd like to see how they collected it. It's estimated--and again, I don't even know where I got this from--that 80% of those charged get convicted of something or plead guilty to something. I think it's somewhere around there. So 20% will go to trial or have it withdrawn or something of that nature.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I guess you could always try to amend the charter.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  It is now. It's based primarily on the synopsis prepared by the police at the time. Often, they're getting better at it. You'll have photocopies of the interview notes, and things of that nature, that show up right at the bail hearing. As a process issue, that gets done on a daily basis, the issue of whether or not the Crown's case is overwhelming, bulletproof, or weak, or whatever.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I am not in the SIS or the police special services, which collect that sort of information. But I don't find it at all surprising that we have in 2005, the year of the gun, a targeted area and groups targeted by the police and major projects with a number of arrests that don't involve a lot of people—my estimate would probably be less than 50—and suddenly the headlines are gone.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I am not a social scientist who could design these programs. What I can say with some certainty.... Let me back up. As you mentioned, one of the difficulties is the financing. Jails are incredibly expensive, but—

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  After doing this for 25 years, one of the things I have observed is that we have incredible numbers of things that we are going to make the individual who has been convicted of a crime do or not do. There are huge numbers of orders, whether it's to stay out of parks, depending on the type of offence, or it's this or that.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I can only speak for Ontario, but all bails, generally speaking, are done in front of justices of the peace. Occasionally you will have a judge doing the bail, but usually because that judge is helping out the courts where there's a backlog, as opposed to.... He or she has the right to do it, but as a practical matter, we have had JPs, or justices of the peace, doing it.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  This legislation will go to JPs as well. It will. That's the way I read it, because it just fits into the old legislation, it doesn't change any of the definitions of the old legislation. In other words, offences that are called 469 offences, like murder and that sort of thing, always go to a superior court judge.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Regarding the example I was using, don't make trafficking in all narcotics a reverse onus, which is the way the law is now, as I understand it. But instead, look at the reversal in the context of the changes that have been made to the new narcotic control act. They have clearly identified a hierarchy of trafficking offences.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  What I was getting at is that I have rarely had a client who has said to me, “If I knew that was the penalty, I never would have done the offence.” They have little idea of what's in store for them. In fact, it was worse with the Young Offenders Act, where parts of the justice system were actively misinforming the public as to what the potential penalties were.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  That's it exactly. In fact, there's also a bit of a kickback, if you will, in a judicial sense. By this, I mean that after we had some really shocking gun cases in Toronto, for a short period of time there almost became judge-made law reversing the onus on gun cases, just by virtue of the holding that a judge made regarding a particular bail.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  We've devolved into the mathematics of what people want for sentencing when they know they're going to be convicted. I've had clients who had previously been in reformatory say, “Please get me a penitentiary sentence”, which is one day more, or “Please, I want to go a certain area.”

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  That's correct.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  First, our courts don't give three for one as a general rule. This requires a fairly significant evidentiary basis. You don't see it on every occasion. For example, Milton had a serious problem with lockdowns, a lot of lockdowns. That was the genesis of the three for one.

Bill C-35 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Yes, they can.