Government Operations committee  It would go up and down somewhat, but it would be fairly typical over the last several years. If anything, I think we would anticipate it growing marginally as the demographic bulge in the public service works its way through. Frankly, this is one of the concerns that all of us have as managers in the public service: that we balance that with the need to retain and recruit fresh blood into the institution.

Government Operations committee  First, Mr. Chair, I accept the honourable member's congratulations and thank her for them.

Government Operations committee  But I would like to point out that, as a department, we have been a little lucky. While we were preparing, during that period, we were able to spend a lot of time on improving our services. That approach required that we get ready by refining our systems, and our procedures for forecasting, planning and implementing technologies.

Government Operations committee  Exactly. For us, this specific mission has had very useful results in this context. I would also like to clarify that the figures we are discussing concern the operating expenses budget. They do not include all the financial resources that we have been allocated, including the transfers, the amounts transferred to individuals and so on.

Government Operations committee  Actually, I said that attrition gives us some flexibility. I didn't say that we would not make up for some of the attrition rate. It's a matter of judgment for us. We need to see what the demands are. That will guide our choices as a department.

Government Operations committee  I told Mr. Vincent that, in all sectors, there are a lot of expenses and savings. We need to spend and invest in services, whether it's people, technology, the development of systems that measure levels of service, or other things still. We get indications from some of our system parameters.

Government Operations committee  We do our very best to begin with the service levels. We can only spend what Parliament has voted for us. The statutory programs with respect to the amounts and eligibility drive themselves, in a sense. We're responsible for managing the operating budget and delivering, in as efficient a manner as possible, those statutory programs, together with the other more specific programs, grants and contributions, and so on.

Government Operations committee  Chair, as I indicated to the member's colleague, that gives us a certain amount of flexibility. I don't know today how many of those we would replace, but I can tell you the approach. They will be selected to meet very specific, defined operational needs. That's why we have in place vacancy management committees in each of the parts of the organization.

Government Operations committee  Well, it's a weekly meeting of deputy ministers.

Government Operations committee  Well, a few of the words are my own.

Government Operations committee  No, no. That would have been a collaborative effort between our finance and HR staff.

Government Operations committee  Deputy ministers meet in a variety of areas.

Government Operations committee  It may refer to matters that are related to cabinet. We would discuss, Chair, everything from how we collectively manage human resources to how we improve our performance at parliamentary committees.

Government Operations committee  Chair, I think I understand what Mr. Martin is asking me, and I can only say two or three things. First, I'm very grateful that I'm not accountable for explaining the entire fiscal framework of the federal government. I can only speak to the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development.

Government Operations committee  We're actually talking about the operating budget and—