Citizenship and Immigration committee  This is an issue that has been confused by many members of the committee. Statutory self-regulation is really an act that empowers the body to have certain powers, competencies, etc., similar to the MARA, to the Migration Act. It empowers. There's a whole section inside the act that creates a statutory self-regulatory body.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  One of the things we've seen in CSIC is that when you start doing investigations and you start then moving into hearings and appeals, the process itself becomes extremely long. That's just the administrative process in front of the regulator. In one case, one of our investigations that's finally now coming to a tribunal decision has taken two years, so I agree that the lengthening of the timeframes....

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Mr. Dykstra, I think Mr. Janzen and the regulator are not that far apart, quite honestly, and there is a public protection mandate. The law societies have part-time lawyers; they have lawyers who practice within corporations. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility that CSIC would entertain....

Citizenship and Immigration committee  We agree. We're currently going through the process of applying to be an investigative body under the Privacy Act so that we can exchange information with the government about members who have done things that are unscrupulous. We can't get at them because the government can't tell us about it, so it's been wholly frustrating with respect to that.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Well, I think it certainly is going to strengthen the regulatory body, and it's going to hold consultants more accountable. It's also going to force consultants who are outlying right now, who are acting as ghost consultants, to start paying their fair share in terms of providing consumer protection and taking on the insurances, taking on the various protection mechanisms in favour of their clients, which they don't do now.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I can give you a copy of the executive summary and the report, which includes all of that information.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, absolutely. CSIC, as you know, was created in 2004 as the result of a delegation of powers of the Governor in Council to CSIC to educate, accredit, and discipline its members. That's CSIC's power, CSIC's mandate, and that's in the public interest. From 2004 to 2008, CSIC essentially was fighting an uphill battle, because the Government of Canada chose at that time to give a four-year hiatus to anyone who had an application in front of the government if they were a consultant: they could continue to practise without having to register with CSIC.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Having been a member of the minister's advisory committee on the regulation of consultants--one of the 15 members, including the treasurer of the law society--that recommended initially this model to the minister, I can tell you, Mr. Dykstra, that I'm very happy the government has listened to us, finally, as over the last six years we've been asking for a specific penalty with respect to immigration consulting.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think the one concern we have with this, Mr. Dykstra, is the issue of the judge and the representative and the role that representative performs in front of the minister. Our members have to represent their clients in front of the minister, much in the same way as a lawyer would have to represent them in front of a judge.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I'm certain that could come as a result of negotiation between the new regulator, if there is one, and CSIC. I will say, however, that you have to understand that this $1.2 million is still a fund that has not been properly funded. Our actuarial studies in terms of the risk require a much larger fund.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Monsieur St-Cyr, I agree with you. The $37 million that's already been invested by members to build up CSIC, with all the warts it currently has, seems to me to be an investment, as is the investment fund. I agree with you: I'm not very comfortable with the fact that we're looking at starting at square one.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Anything is possible, Monsieur St-Cyr. Negotiations with the Province of Quebec to be a support for their regulatory system...it all comes as a result of negotiation and compromise. I'm not saying that's beyond the realm of possibility, but certainly there are details that will have to be worked out, depending on what the government decides to do.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Not unless there was a process of negotiation between the new regulator and the old regulator. The funds would be there for claims up to the point where CSIC stopped being the regulator. So if there were a claim or an infraction or criminal conviction that originated in the time that CSIC was a regulator, then the fund would survive until such time as those claims had gone through the process.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  We are: exactly $1.2 million is in the fund. Again, we're talking about the last annual audited statements, which were issued in February of this year. Our current fiscal year is coming to an end on October 31 of this year and our audited statements will not be publicly available until February 2011.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Oh, the majority of it is left and I can give an undertaking.... I don't have that figure right at hand, Mr. St-Cyr, but I will certainly by Friday, given that I've just heard the motion, ensure the committee gets that information.