Government Operations committee  [Inaudible—Editor] comment on the labour management issue here, but I will say two things on whether or not joint governance can be the solution for Canada Post. The first is alignment of interest. The various stakeholders need to have interest that is possible to align. The seco

Government Operations committee  I agree with my colleague.

Government Operations committee  Well, there's a huge market of providers to help all sorts of clients, so if they do not have the expertise internally, they can buy it from outside providers.

Government Operations committee  The problem the Canada Post plan is facing is frankly no different from what most defined benefit plans, not cost-shared plans or joint governance plans, are facing. There is a problem with the level of the interest rate. With a low interest rate, as it now has, frankly, I'm not

Government Operations committee  Well, you're the chair.

Government Operations committee  No, it works when the stakeholders are content to agree among themselves, either because they have a common interest or because the number of stakeholders is low. It doesn't work when the interests of the various stakeholders are not aligned or when the number of stakeholders is

Government Operations committee  No, they've made the name.... I will mention that amongst multi-employer groups—I'll let you find examples of multi-employer groups. There are horror stories within those groups.

Government Operations committee  I won't....

Government Operations committee  Having said that, I do want to make the point that those multi-employer groups are not JSPP.

Government Operations committee  You're correct on the joint governance. The advantage of joint governance is that you can get a consensus from the various stakeholders on the proper balance between security and affordability. That's the reason for it. You have an example here of a group that was able to attain

Industry committee  Thanks. I want to start by saying that no private plan sponsor is forced to have a defined benefit plan. It's something they decide themselves, subject to labour negotiations. It seems to me that you have to encourage private sector sponsors to set up and maintain their defined

Industry committee  I'm glad, first of all, that you're concerned about the plight of defined benefit plans. To me, to resolve the Nortel situation and other situations, government should introduce measures to encourage plan sponsors to better fund their pension plans. The Canadian Institute of Actu

Industry committee  Thank you, Ms. Bastien, Mr. Chairman. As Ms. Bastien said, pension plan sponsors are currently going through tough times. We estimate that more than 90% of pension plans are in a deficit position and that 30% have a shortfall of more than 20% of their fund. In a number of cases