Human Resources committee  We are conducting evaluations to determine whether there are things that we aren't seeing or that we don't know, and to evaluate the effectiveness of the program. It's important to know that the Canada pension plan disability program uses very specific and very precise definitions that refer to the seriousness of the disability and to a long-term disability, among other things.

Human Resources committee  Are you talking about people who benefit from the pension program or other people?

Human Resources committee  It's an insurance program. When we contribute to the Canada pension plan, we also automatically contribute to this insurance fund. The program is set up to provide these insurance funds to people who meet a minimum number of criteria. For example, a person needs to have previously contributed to the program, and so on.

Human Resources committee  Actually, when we looked at the evaluation report, we noticed that some numbers were surprising and that we would need to do a lot of work to understand the numbers better. It wasn't clear why some of these people did not return to work or how the files were presented. In our response to the report, we noted that this matter would require a more in-depth review to understand the dynamics and better understand what these numbers really mean.

Human Resources committee  Yes, sure. What I would say is that the efforts focusing on seniors in the last few decades have been quite successful when one looks at the poverty rate among seniors. In a few decades, that rate went down to only 5.2%, which is in fact lower than the average for the rest of the Canadian population.

Human Resources committee  That includes the....

Human Resources committee  Yes.

Human Resources committee  I didn't check the last figure because markets are moving, but it's in the $150 billion range.

Human Resources committee  That's correct. In fact, there are three different sources of funds for the department. One is EI, one is CPP, and the rest is a central....

Human Resources committee  I would add that all the amounts relating to the CPP are published on a yearly basis by the Chief Actuary, who keeps a close track on the needs: how much comes in, and how much goes out. In fact, in his report he said that the CPP was viable for the next 75 years, and that's based on all of these projections and on the in and out currently happening.

Human Resources committee  You're correct that we manage the plan. The contributions are being paid on an annual basis, amounting to 9.9% on a half-and-half basis between the employee and employers. That money is captured and, at the moment, we are not paying benefits out at the same level as the contributions.

Human Resources committee  To clarify the benefits, if I may, you were talking about the CPP and OAS and so on. They are not counted in this. Then there is a base that is evaluated for the entire department, and the 5% is 5% of that base.