International Trade committee  Merci, monsieur. It certainly made me happy to hear you say that the government will never allow bulk water exports. That was a good thing, and we will quote you all over the place. But Mr. Lemieux is wrong in saying that NAFTA does not impact on the provinces and does not take precedence.

International Trade committee  I would just say that everyone recognizes that this is a problem, but we also recognize that it's a result of 9/11 and the very real concerns the United States has around border security. I don't think there's very much we can do that's going to change the new reality of the border.

International Trade committee  Thank you for both those questions. We are very concerned about the social consequences of a merger the size of the SPP coming out of NAFTA. We've watched our country change from looking like a large egg, with a great big middle class, to looking more like a pear, with more and more Canadians falling out at the bottom and fewer holding power at the top.

International Trade committee  We absolutely should. Let me quote to you from this paper that we're going to be giving you from the North American Future 2025 project. I've been talking about water, but it's full of many interesting things. They talk about: In order to remain competitive in the global economy, it is imperative for the twenty-first-century North American labor market to possess the flexibility necessary to meet industrial labor demands on a transitional basis and in a way that responds to market forces.

International Trade committee  The first officials to ask about our view were from the American embassy, two weeks ago. They invited us to the bunker to chat. We invited them back to our office instead. Nobody from either the previous government or this one has asked anyone, as far as I know--not just us, but any environmental group, education group, or health care organization.

International Trade committee  I have two points. One is that you won't see the word “water” in NAFTA. What you'll see is the reference to the definition of a “good” that was in the old General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. When you go to that, you will see water in all its forms, including ice and snow. NAFTA adopted the old GATT tariff notion of a good, so water absolutely, definitely, is in NAFTA, which supersedes the provincial laws; not one of the provincial bans on water exports would stand up to a NAFTA challenge.

International Trade committee  Yes, it does conflict with NAFTA, because in NAFTA water is a commercial good as well as an investment.

International Trade committee  Could I--

International Trade committee  It does conflict with NAFTA, but in our view the United States has broken NAFTA by not abiding by the softwood lumber rulings. Therefore we feel it is perfectly legitimate for Canada to take a stand on the areas of NAFTA that don't work for Canada. We should ban bulk water exports, which means breaking our commitment under NAFTA.

International Trade committee  No. We have given away our energy sovereignty. Those of us looking at this wonder what more you could give away: the NAFTA, ownership and control of the tar sands to American corporations, and the agreement to not implement a different environmental regime from the United States.

International Trade committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Julian, and thank you for the opportunity to respond to my friend here. I was actually thinking, when you spoke, that this was an initiative undertaken by the Liberals before you. Had they been in power now, you probably would have been sitting here with me, criticizing it.

International Trade committee  Would it be all right if I--

International Trade committee  If you don’t mind, I will answer in English. I understand French, but I am more comfortable in English. I'll start with the first. This was always our criticism of NAFTA. One of our criticisms of NAFTA was that it would place Canada in a very vulnerable position to have almost all of our exports—I think it's close to 87% now—going to the United States, so that we would then be helpless, or in a very difficult position, if ever there was a reason to close that border.

International Trade committee  There are two things I would say. First of all, it's become quite clear only recently how serious the water crisis in the United States actually is. There's a new Environmental Protection Agency report that says that 36 states are in crisis. The issue of water as a national security issue has moved up to the top of the political agenda in the United States.

International Trade committee  Thank you very much. Thank you for the opportunity to present to you here today. The Council of Canadians is Canada's largest public advocacy organization. We have been working on the security and prosperity partnership since before it was signed into effect in Waco in March 2005, in fact since it was a twinkle in Tom d'Aquino's eye.