Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Mostly they've just carried on as they have before.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  CHF Canada will certainly do that.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  To date they have, but none of the older co-ops have yet refinanced their properties to do repairs.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Sure. We don't and can't pay dividends to members. Surpluses go into what's typically referred to as a replacement reserve fund, which is a fund you build up for when you need to do major capital expenses. Those funds don't, and in my opinion shouldn't, fully cover the cost of absolutely everything.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I can only speak for B.C. in terms of that.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  What's in it for the early members is security of tenure. It's one of the most important parts of co-op housing. If you're a tenant, your landlord can evict you. They need a reason of course, but the reason could, in B.C. at least, be something as simple as they want their kids to move into your unit.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  That's right, yes.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  In B.C. it doesn't quite work like that. The province has the money and decides what kind of program it's going to fund, right? It might decide to fund seniors housing, and then it'll put out a request for proposals for seniors housing. It might decide to cover family housing and put out for that.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  The federal government ought to have perhaps a less laissez-faire approach to that.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I'm not. I haven't been invited, and it doesn't sound to me like they need all that much help. Typically we've focused on non-profit co-ops, as opposed to the equity side of things. As I say, I think and I hope that will change in the future as we look for more affordable home ownership options, as opposed to rental co-ops.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I'm sure it has been sent. Whether there's been a response or not, I couldn't say. That would have been correspondence between the minister and CHF Canada.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Surprise, surprise.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  No, that was kind of an update of what had been a longstanding practice in Vancouver, especially of the city, which often acquires land as a result of development agreements, rezonings, stuff like that. They get a piece of land from a developer and they use it for affordable housing.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  So far the loans we've negotiated throughout partnership have been second mortgages, partly because that happened to be the most advantageous way to do it for those co-ops. They were quite close to the end of their operating agreement. You wouldn't want to bundle up what's left when most of what you're paying on that mortgage is principal and not interest.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  It's not gifted to us. In Vancouver, they have what they call a property endowment fund, which holds the land, and then the co-op has a lease on the land, and those leases are typically 60 years. That's the case at Athletes Village. The city used to have a formula where it would charge 50% of market value for a 40-year lease and 75% of market value for a 60-year lease.