Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Because we're the first ones, we've been consistently trying to prove the case, and investors who take up our offering, even through the credit crisis, have consistently taken up our paper. It never went down, even though it did go down for many of the banks, because the trust in

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  No, we've had the rating probably for at least six, seven years, and we operate really effectively. They do a public rating of us, an annual review, and that is something that other cooperatives can't access right now, but—

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  It could change.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Just in general?

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  The largest loan we have is probably about $25 million. We syndicate past that point, which means that we would share the loans with other credit unions or banks. We do a lot of that, especially with—

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  They could go to $50 million or $100 million.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Right. It depends on the situation. We do commercial lending across the country, mainly looking for impact types of commercial loans, but if we're the lead syndicate on that, then we would do that. Otherwise, we get invited into other syndicates, so it goes both ways. That's the

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  That's correct. From our beginnings, people came around a kitchen table to create Vancity in 1946, to pool their money together because at that time the banks weren't lending east of Main Street. They just pooled their money together to lend to one person and created it. Ever si

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Absolutely. To make sure we have the right facts, Vancity is only one representative of a credit union in British Columbia. British Columbia has numerous credit unions, which are in urban and rural areas. They're employment-based. They're sometimes religious-based. They're acros

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  They still don't address that, because it's an absolute. It's not a structural thing. I think it needs to be looked at further. I think that's where it's not set up in a way to support what they need. There are some disadvantages, more probably at the macro level. Whether they're

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Right. Well, retained earnings for what purpose? For us, as a cooperative structure, retaining earnings serves the purpose of supporting our future growth and investment. Otherwise, they are distributed back to our communities. That's the only purpose they have. We don't have sin

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Absolutely.

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  I'm not sure in terms of the specifics of how that impacted us, because our focus is overall on the communities and the cooperatives. A lot of them are non-profits. Irrespective of the type of organization they are, as long as they're doing something good for the community, are p

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Yes. An example is the Kettle Friendship Society. We had to use a creative means of trying to help them get established, both through supporting a debt and by sometimes using granting as well as lending. That's a combination of different forms to make sure that they're capitalize

Special Committee on Cooperatives committee  Sir, you're referring to housing co-ops, those types of things?