Finance committee  Thank you. Thank you for acknowledging at least that there is this point about issues avoided. I think there also is the point that we do gain some additional information immediately from the U.S. in relation to the collection of taxpayer identification numbers, which will help in our own data matching.

Finance committee  He did the heavy lifting.

Finance committee  Just to help situate myself, these are comments by Arthur Cockfield or...?

Finance committee  Thank you. First of all can I just make a comment?

Finance committee  Well, the immediate asymmetry and ongoing sort of quest for symmetry is something that can be the subject of comment, and people could think or suggest that Canada ought to have sought immediate symmetry or reciprocity or equivalence and not agreed to it without having done so. I would say what we've done on that basis is the same platform as the other 29 countries or jurisdictions that have agreed to it.

Finance committee  I had a role in it, yes, sir.

Finance committee  Thank you.

Finance committee  I think people do confuse FATCA with IGA, where in fact the IGA displaces FATCA. It says instead of FATCA we'll do this, so that is an important point. I would also say that as a result of FATCA and the discussion around it and FBAR a couple of years ago I think there are a number of Canadians, accidental Americans, or otherwise, who are kind of becoming aware of the issues of U.S. citizenship taxation.

Finance committee  I think that's right. So in the absence of an IGA—and I don't want to sound apocalyptic but there were very serious issues. The U.S. said it was about exchange of information and it's always been about the exchange of information but their penalty, their lever, under FATCA to get information was to impose a 30% withholding tax on payments made from the U.S. to foreign financial institutions.

Finance committee  We are aware of the comment. I can give you a moment now, and then we can see where that takes us. Yes, we are aware of their view. It's that we haven't fully complied with, effectively, our commitment and agreement with the United States and what we've done in our implementing legislation.

Finance committee  I think that any of their U.S. presence would have been separate and apart from this but in relation to their Canadian operations and indeed their third country operations outside of the U.S., it would have been as I described. That is to say, they would have had these issues with either being in some sense shut out of the U.S. market or having to do the same thing as the intergovernmental agreement would require but on a much wider scope and on a much more onerous basis.

Finance committee  I think the answer is that it doesn't assist in the direct collection of taxes; it assists in the collection of information. The intergovernmental agreement that we were discussing at the last committee hearing on the budget implementation act reviewed that. It's not about collecting taxes, per se.

Finance committee  My understanding of what the minister said and of how the rules apply is that FATCA is applicable potentially to U.S. taxpayers, including U.S. residents--according to our concept of the term—as well as U.S. citizens. So a dual citizen could be subject to the application of the intergovernmental agreement, but it requires them to be a U.S. citizen.

Finance committee  Yes. I believe that's what the minister said as well.

Finance committee  Well, it's the legislation that's proposed to be before Parliament that imposes that requirement. But my answer remains that, practically, the U.S. person will be contacted to find out whether there's further information to provide, but there's not an explicit requirement for notification.