Information & Ethics committee  My first reaction is that I'm not as concerned about that as I am about them going to work in an agency where they could make really a lot of money from knowing what they know from their previous employment—

Information & Ethics committee  Maybe they are making a lot of money, but the key is this, I think. What the Americans have done is to have really detailed rules about everything. It's hard to understand them because they're so lengthy and so detailed. Also, because they're so detailed, there are a lot of looph

Information & Ethics committee  Yes.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes, I was thinking of MPs and cabinet ministers, but there needs to be a different system, as Mr. Levine has pointed out, for the other public office holders.

Information & Ethics committee  I very much agree with Mr. Levine on this. The American systems are highly partisan. They're not seen as being objective as ours are. I think the key is ensuring that the commissioner is always seen as someone who is non-partisan and objective and competent. With regard to that

Information & Ethics committee  No, no, I think you're on base. Would you like Mr. Levine or—

Information & Ethics committee  Okay. One thing that was recommended by Oliphant is that if people violated the rules and were no longer public office holders, then current MPs and cabinet ministers should not be allowed to arrange for contracts with them. So they're blacklisted, and they have to check with the

Information & Ethics committee  No.

Information & Ethics committee  That's a very good question. I think I understood most of what you were asking. It seems to me that it's more efficient to prevent a breach of the rules from happening than it is to investigate afterwards and try to pick up the pieces. When Greg Evans was the first ethics com

Information & Ethics committee  In the first couple of years in the Ontario system, the first commissioner, former Chief Justice Evans, in one of his reports said he didn't like the number of petty complaints that were coming from members on both sides of the legislature. So he recommended that the parties have

Information & Ethics committee  There were a number of recommendations, about 20 of them that were spread across, recommendations to this committee, to the Prime Minister's office, and to the commissioner's office.

Information & Ethics committee  In terms of the definition of conflict of interest, it is to broaden it to include apparent conflict of interest, because that was the one recommendation.

Information & Ethics committee  I see.

Information & Ethics committee  My view is that it's good to make it as clear as possible. If you include “apparent” in the definition itself, it's clearer than it would be if implied elsewhere. Members are less likely to accidentally breach the rules if it's clarified in the definition.

Information & Ethics committee  That's a very good point. Over the years there's been a lot of misinformation, particularly in terms of what Dr. Shapiro did but also in terms of some of the things Mary Dawson has done. That's harmful. It's not good for the reputation of the office. Right now, you're right—her