International Trade committee  Of the Indian labour force, 93% are employed in the informal sector. So people in informal sector jobs have no protection, they have very little job security. In that context the other 7% who are in good jobs where they do have protection are under quite a lot of pressure. So I think there are huge difficulties in the implementation of labour law.

International Trade committee  Yes.

International Trade committee  I think $15 billion by 2015 is extremely optimistic for all the reasons I've touched on in different points. On fast and shallow rather than protracted and deep, I think it's going to be very difficult for us to conclude anything other than a shallow agreement. So maybe recognize that and get on with it and do it and build from there rather than saying let's work this out in detail at this point.

International Trade committee  It's difficult to do what with regulations? What was the word?

International Trade committee  Again, we have to recognize that there has been a very strong feeling among Indian policy-makers and politicians that we, on our side, in countries like Canada, are using environmental regulations as a means of protecting ourselves. India's approach, in talks on climate change, has reflected this rather deep-seated sense of being subject to imperialist kinds of pressures.

International Trade committee  Yes.

International Trade committee  I'm a great believer in the overall ILO agenda of decent work. Whether there's any chance of these protocols being really effective in addressing the problem of child labour, I'm rather doubtful. The studies that we have of child labour—I'm thinking more of ethnographic studies that have been conducted—I'm sure there are such strong incentives for kids themselves, never mind for their parents, to be getting into work.

International Trade committee  We, in Canadian universities, have really woken up in a big way to those potentials within the last five years. My own university has become very active in trying to build these connections. There remain lots of problems. We have problems with resources to actually get people here and there.

International Trade committee  I think India is not likely, actually, to sustain the sorts of rates of growth it hopes for. As I'm sure you're aware, for Indians the competition with China is immensely important. There's a tremendous concern that the Indian economy should be growing at about the same sort of rate as the Chinese economy.

International Trade committee  As I said in my presentation, and in answer to other questions, my understanding and my perception are that India's person-power resources for concluding an agreement of this kind are very limited. I think that if Canada is to bring this really onto, if you will, the front burner in India, then being able to do a really convincing deal in regard to oil and gas could be the game changer.

International Trade committee  I really can't give you a detailed answer to that question because I have so little expert knowledge in this field. But I know that the officials who have run the ministry of finance in India have always been a very conservative bunch. It is greatly to their credit historically that India did not suffer from the debt crisis that so many countries, erstwhile third world countries, suffered from in the 1980s.

International Trade committee  Okay. There are clearly very sensitive areas for India, such as pharmaceuticals and generics. I think it will be extremely important that there is absolute clarity about the protocols and procedures that will be followed in processes of certification and regulation in areas of that kind.

International Trade committee  We shouldn't expect too much from an agreement of this kind. I mentioned in my presentation the problems of capacity in India, in actually conducting these kinds of negotiations. I believe that the Indian ministry of commerce website lists 34 sets of trade negotiations of this kind going on at the moment.

International Trade committee  On the last point I have to say that I've been out of Canada now for, I think it's getting on to three months, and I'm not as well in touch with news from Canada as I would like to be. I don't know what has been finally decided about the rather controversial Chinese bid to buy up one of the Canadian oil and gas companies.

International Trade committee  I've had interestingly different advice on this from the colleagues with whom I've spoken. They include, as I mentioned, a former finance secretary in the Government of India, and somebody who was also a senior official in finance. The former finance secretary points out that banks like Lloyds and the infamous Royal Bank of Scotland do actually have very good business in India in the area of commercial services.