Foreign Affairs committee  Without knowing the particular bits of legislation or international agreements that you are referring to, I think we all could agree that it's unfortunate if human rights protections are eroded. Hopefully, that's an unintended consequence of various kinds of agreements, and hopefully those are the kinds of things that we can work towards remedying.

Foreign Affairs committee  I would say that I think it's an excellent question. I think the first thing to say is that, even when corruption is common in a place, that doesn't mean it's acceptable, and it certainly doesn't license Canadian companies to engage in corruption just because local business is corrupt.

Foreign Affairs committee  Sure. I think the key difficulty that you run into with the kinds of recommendations that Mr. Ruggie put forward, which I think have been generally well received and well respected, has to do with two things—the difference between, on the one hand, respecting human rights, which pretty much everyone agrees everyone has to do, versus, on the other hand, promoting human rights.

Foreign Affairs committee  Yes. I would just say that one of the things we have to watch out for a little bit with this issue, in the light of a tragedy like this, is to not focus entirely on Bangladesh and the particular circumstances there. I would say also that I think one of the challenges companies like Loblaw face in all of these areas is that safety and working standards are going to be along a spectrum.

Foreign Affairs committee  I don't know the Bangladeshi government well. I do know it's a troubled place. I know they have serious corruption problems. When the corruption rankings come out, Bangladesh is not at the good end of the scale. So there's only so much you can do under that set of circumstances.

Foreign Affairs committee  I just wanted to open up the possibility that for some companies it might make sense. I wasn't arguing against the accord, but I was saying it might be reasonable for companies that feel like they have the right kind of command over their supply chains and the right kinds of local capacity to go their own way.

Foreign Affairs committee  Sure, I think that's right. The hard part, of course, is what it is that a Canadian company can do to make sure that someone acting on their behalf, or on behalf of someone acting on their behalf, is not violating people's human rights. I think this requires Canadian companies to learn a lot more about what is going on in the local scene, in terms of both cultural and economic factors.

Foreign Affairs committee  The ability of embassies to affect local goings-on is probably one of the oldest problems in the history of foreign affairs. It's a good example of how it's going to depend a lot on local circumstances. Some embassies are very well placed and have very good relationships and are going to have a lot of influence.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the members of the committee for this chance to speak to you today. The Jim Pattison ethical leadership program and the Ted Rogers School of Management appreciate the opportunity. I want to make clear at the outset that I do not represent any constituency or interests.