Public Safety committee  I don't know.... I think I'd like to go back for a moment, actually, to your other question to me, if you don't mind.

Public Safety committee  The one thing I would note is that, whatever you think of the rate of return to the investor, in that scenario the projected net taxpayer savings—which means after the program costs have been absorbed and the investor has been paid—are over $20 million. If you're thinking about i

Public Safety committee  I think any government that agrees to such a deal needs to rehire some new accountants and lawyers. It should not. No one should undertake this arrangement in which the government ends up losing money, right?

Public Safety committee  In our case, we have adapted, but we've walked a close line between both adaptation and fidelity, because we're trying to be true to a particular program model that has been shown to be successful in the past. We worry that if we change it too much, then we're working in uncharte

Public Safety committee  No. I'm sorry if that was unclear. The amount of repayment is capped if the project succeeds in reducing recidivism by 20%. The investor's maximum profit, at that rate of a 20% impact, would be $2.1 million. That's the most money the investor would gain.

Public Safety committee  Yes. If you take the base of a $9.6-million investment, they can get a net return of $2.1 million over a period of years, which, when you look at it on an annual basis, is not that out of line with other investments.

Public Safety committee  Our population are 16- to 18-year-olds, who in New York state—one of the two states in the United States—are treated like adults. New York and North Carolina share that distinction. I'm not sure we share much else. This is a saturation program, meaning we're trying to reach eve

Public Safety committee  This program initially is being totally funded by the private sector, by the foundation and the bank. It's a $9.6-million budget over a four-year period.

Public Safety committee  Actually tracking the net impact, which is done by an independent evaluator and not by us, is relatively easy. They're going to take the data regarding the number of days in the program. Once people leave jail, they're going to track them for two years, count how many of them com

Public Safety committee  I agree with that as well.

Public Safety committee  Yes, that's one of our responsibilities, frankly, as the intermediary on this project. We do a lot of monitoring of what's happening on the ground. We talk to the program participants. Fortunately, we haven't heard much of this, but if they have complaints about the service—if th

Public Safety committee  Our particular project is not tailored to individuals. It's essentially an intervention that is provided to and the same for everybody. It's a course in cognitive behavioural therapy that's designed to change thinking. You can take into account the needs of individuals, but there

Public Safety committee  Yes, I think so, with one caveat. I'm also saying that these projects all look somewhat different. It depends on the kind of intervention you're doing, who the partners are, the mix of philanthropies and private employers, but I would say that in general, yes, we can do it more q

Public Safety committee  The only thing I would say is that if what you're saying is true, the implications are that you really don't have to improve your programs. If you're saying that there really isn't an opportunity for marginal impacts, then the status quo is acceptable to you. I don't think you wa

Public Safety committee  That's spectacular; you're right.