Finance committee  It's a catch. We know small businesses. One of their greatest challenges is access to capital. We have heard time and again that this is their challenge. When they come to us as a credit union, because we're local, because we know the business in the cities where we operate, because we know them—and we often know their mothers—we know if that business is going to be viable or not.

Finance committee  Yes, that is.

Finance committee  For us, it's fair taxation. When you asked about our competitiveness with the banks, credit unions are the small business of the financial industry. As my colleague mentioned, we're in a lot of those small communities. One way we really have impact is with small businesses. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business recently came out with a study that says that credit unions are actually tied in Canada for the number one place where small and medium-sized businesses go for their banking needs.

Finance committee  We're with First West Credit Union. We have an industry association. We certainly can give you exact numbers on that for the system. For First West, ourselves, we estimate $3.1 million in additional tax through the phase-out period, then an additional $1.8 million every year after 2016.