Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you very much.

Foreign Affairs committee  I very much agree with what Mr. Genser said. If you look at the Ukraine-related sanctions, the United States and, I believe, Canada and the European Union have put individuals on the sanctions list for contributing to or being a part of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, of the illegal annexation of Crimea.

Foreign Affairs committee  I'll be very direct. I'm a Republican who was critical of Donald Trump when he was campaigning. I did not support his candidacy. I am deeply worried what could happen to the sanctions regime on Russia. I was told before coming in to appear before you that he and Vladimir Putin have spoken by phone today.

Foreign Affairs committee  First, just to clarify, I believe the study I referred to by Gary Hufbauer, who was then at the Institute for International Economics, now called the Peterson Institute, was done in 2009. Mr. Genser may have more facts on this than I do. I apologize, I don't have the study in front of me.

Foreign Affairs committee  The definition of success can vary depending on what the objectives are in a certain situation. Pressure applied on the apartheid regime in South Africa through the Sullivan principles and other sanctions is one example. The international sanctions that were done on Iran to pressure it to come to the negotiating table would be another example that could be cited.

Foreign Affairs committee  First, yes, I would like to go after other countries. That's why I support global Magnitsky. But the Magnitsky story itself presented an ideal opportunity to go after Russian officials involved in gross human rights abuses. The number of entities under the Magnitsky act is zero, I believe.

Foreign Affairs committee  Is Russia the worst human rights abuser? The short answer is no. However, Russia is one of the worst, and it's only been getting worse over the years, particularly since Putin returned to power in 2012. As Mr. Genser mentioned, I used to run Freedom House. It produces this category of “the worst of the worst”, and Russia is not in that category.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you very much for your question. It touches on a very important issue. In 2012, soon after the U.S. Congress passed the Magnitsky act, and the president signed it into law, President Putin responded by banning the adoption of Russian orphans by American citizens. He went after the most vulnerable, innocent segment of his population and punished them.

Foreign Affairs committee  I agree completely, but the problem is not with the sanctions that have been imposed. The problem is that we have not done an effective job in the west to explain to our own citizens—and to Russian citizens, which is a challenge given Putin's control over the media—that the sanctions that have hurt the most have been the ones that Putin himself has imposed against his own people.

Foreign Affairs committee  That's okay.

Foreign Affairs committee  I'd be happy to comment. I do think it would be very positive for Canada to enact Magnitsky-like legislation. In the United States, Magnitsky legislation technically wasn't required for the president to go after those involved in the Magnitsky case. There is existing presidential authority in the United States for the president, delegated to the Secretary of State and the Secretary of the Treasury, to impose sanctions on people involved in gross human rights abuses, even for people involved in major corruption, which the global Magnitsky act, which has not passed the U.S.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you very much for the question. Again, I'm here in Washington, so perhaps I will give how we do it here in the United States. My answer is also based on having served in the U.S. Department of State for eight years during the Bush administration. There are two departments that take the lead on sanctions.

Foreign Affairs committee  Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thanks very much. It's a great privilege and honour to be appearing before you via Skype on this important issue of sanctions. If you don't mind, Mr. Chair, what I will do is focus on whether sanctions work and what the United States has been doing.