National Defence committee  Yes. I think I was a little surprised when I heard about that at the Senate, because I was speaking at the same time. I never was aware of that before he said it.

National Defence committee  No.

National Defence committee  Yes.

National Defence committee  Yes, but that's the thing. Oversight and accountability are really required in a place that is decentralized and covering such a massive place, especially when you delegate more responsibility to less-trained people and don't give clear definitions and procedures, which leads to a lot of interpretations.

National Defence committee  Again, I think it would be better oversight, such as the OAG report, regularly, and having those kinds of things that happen, just to ensure that the training was done and done well and people understood. That's what would matter, I guess.

National Defence committee  I mean external oversight.

National Defence committee  I don't think it can be internal, no.

National Defence committee  Well, the military ombudsman never really took that part, from what I have seen. There's never been a report that I've seen on that. From what I have seen, within five years they had 32 cases of sexual harassment. That's before the Deschamps commission. Concerning the fact that there were 960 cases that came after a sexual assault, I'm just wondering if this is the right place.

National Defence committee  Do you mean that they haven't reached their goals?

National Defence committee  The goal was to eliminate harmful and inappropriate sexual behaviour, so to be honest, that was a goal that was really hard to achieve, to eliminate it. I don't think, in a clear mind, anybody really had the impression that this would completely happen.

National Defence committee  They are not being accommodated, being under the impression that the accommodation didn't happen, having their units talk about them, obviously, and conversations about them or information gathering. They are things like that.

National Defence committee  Through a solid bill, I guess, with teeth in it. The thing is that by leaving things to the chain of command.... This is a very decentralized place. People don't necessarily have bad intentions; they just don't have the education on it. They don't know how to handle these things.

National Defence committee  I know that part of the SMRC is to report people to the padres. One of the things about the padres is that they have a duty to report, yet they also have conventional rights. Basically, if somebody confesses a crime to them, they can choose to keep that to themselves, but if a person victimized by sexual violence talks to them without being in confession, they can report that.

National Defence committee  I heard many different things from the chaplain. Again, I think training would help to ensure that there will be a trauma-informed response when they answer to people, and also that they have better guidance on what to do when they receive those kinds of things.

National Defence committee  The process?