Finance committee  With respect to money laundering, I can indicate that where it has been stand-alone money-laundering, proceeds of crime, there have been 46 files during the last five years. Of those 46 files, 25 were stayed or withdrawn by the crown, and 21 were adjudicated. Eighteen 18 were convicted, through a guilty plea or after trial, and five were acquitted.

Finance committee  First of all, we do have a presence, of course, in the Northwest Territories. My part of the organization is actually responsible for our offices in the three territories. We do not have and we have not had significant money-laundering proceeds of crime cases there. Part of the reason for that is that even the drug portion is not the primary portion of what is occurring there, although there is definitely an increase happening.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Finance committee  Unfortunately, I can't really comment on what is not in a position to be presented for purposes of a charge. Our folks are regularly consulted by the police on a whole host of investigations in this area, as in other areas where decisions are made, and they are in the best position to make those decisions as to how much further they are going to be able to get in an investigation.

Finance committee  Again, I'm not able to comment on the provincial statistics because I do not have the provincial statistics. What I can indicate is that in the provinces, there are two different regimes. There is the Criminal Code regime. I think virtually every province has a civil forfeiture regime as well, which we don't have federally.

Finance committee  I mentioned the Chun case. I think that perhaps the reasons for judgment in that case might be of assistance to the committee, because with respect to when you get to a closed case and there's a determination made by the judge, you have to have reasons. The judge synthesizes all the evidence and indicates, essentially, what had to come together to have that finding by the court.

Finance committee  Sure.

Finance committee  That 84% represented the cases that had either proceeds of crime or money laundering in them, and other offences as well—drugs. That represents that. When you take out of that figure the withdrawals and stays by the crown, putting aside judicial stays, because those are a different concern or matter, that's what that referred to.

Finance committee  I'm certainly happy to answer any questions about them, too.

Finance committee  When we provide advice to the police, our goal is to make sure that when that sharing happens, it happens in a manner that is going to lead to admissible evidence. Our concern is with respect to the statutory framework being relied on, and what the charter implications are for privacy.

Finance committee  If you give me an indication, Mr. Chair, of what types of statistics are sought, I can tell you, for example, that in the last five years, we've had 163 money laundering proceeds of crime prosecutions. Those are prosecutions that have drugs in them as well. In terms of standalone money laundering and proceeds of crime, the classic, we've had 46 during that five-year period.

Finance committee  I think that's a policy question. There's no way to avoid evidence-related issues. There are always people, whether they are police officers or members of the public, who look for the magic bullet, but there isn't one. It always comes down to what you can prove. The prosecution in the Chun case is a good example.

Finance committee  Yes, there is a case involving crypto currency, but I will keep my remarks general, so as not to comment on a particular case. Currently, transactions are made using bitcoin, but there has to be another way for the parties to communicate, other than bitcoin. To traffic in drugs, for instance, you can use bitcoin, but bitcoin alone won't cut it.

Finance committee  I took a look to see our statistics in terms of cases where there were money laundering or proceeds of crime alone, as opposed to being tied to a drug offence, and were any of those Jordan stayed, and, no, they haven't been. Mind you, we're still in early days in Jordan. Jordan came in, in July 2016.

Finance committee  We don't have a system whereby we have an automatic cut-off. We look at each particular case to see whether or not this is a case where the time limit, even if it's over 30 months.... We have cases that are over 40, 45 months even, but where some of the delay is institutional and some of it is defence, where we will argue it, and we have argued it, and have argued it successfully where in fact those factors are made out.