Public Safety committee  Following the events at the Prison for Women, Louise Arbour recommended judicial oversight. I think every move since then has reinforced why that is the best model and the model that should be implemented, because every measure to produce so-called independent bodies to come in, whether it's for charges within the prisons and the independent chairpersons, is very dependent on the individual before whom the prisoners and the staff appear, and the reality is that in most cases they have become further arms of the government body.

Public Safety committee  I'm sorry to interrupt. Prior to my appointment, in the job I was in previously we had recommended and offered an approach to Correctional Service of Canada in the process of all of these court cases being developed. At that time the Elizabeth Fry Society was the only organization recommending no segregation at all, and certainly not for women, and not for those with mental health issues.