Natural Resources committee  Part of the rationale behind the model we proposed was that it is doable. Statistics Canada has the mandate to collect the information. It has relationships with the provinces. I will let Mr. Israël comment on what we can do to get more timely data, immediately.

Natural Resources committee  Yes.

Natural Resources committee  I'll let Mr. Israël comment on that.

Natural Resources committee  To pick up on what Mr. Fogwill said, that funding is really critical. You might need to mandate an extended funding period, up to 10 years, at the beginning of the organization, to ensure that stability and ensure it gets created. There are a number of models that would work. Ones that are partially housed within government are workable and potentially less resource-intensive, but again it really comes down to the functions you want it to perform and this issue of public trust and independence, which are really linked.

Natural Resources committee  I do. I feel that whatever organization gets created needs to have a really strong public interest mandate. If it were private, particularly if there were a for-profit model, I would worry that the public interest mandate would be compromised. The committee might look at the example of the Canadian Council on Social Development, which I believe in the late eighties or early nineties, as a non-profit, actually did a function of data analysis on socio-economic issues.

Natural Resources committee  Well, our recommendations were largely designed around the idea of trying to minimize additional resources that are needed: rather than creating an entirely new institution, use the capacities that already exist. I will say, though, that we know there are other models out there, and more important than the actual structure of the model is that issue of independence.

Natural Resources committee  I'll now briefly go through some of our recommendations. In our role as advocates for evidence-based policy, we have recently undertaken a series of expert interviews and developed recommendations for modernizing the National Energy Board. The state of energy data was raised repeatedly in those interviews.

Natural Resources committee  Hello, and thank you for the allowing us the opportunity to comment on the state of energy data in Canada and to offer our recommendations. My name is Nichole Dusyk. I'm a postdoctoral fellow with the Pembina Institute, and my colleague Benjamin Israël joins us from Calgary. He's a technical and policy analyst with the responsible fossil fuels program.

Environment committee  Basically there are two functions we look at when we're looking at energy information, and this is important because good decision-making has to be based on good data and based on high-quality data that is bias-free. What we have suggested is expanding the role of Stats Canada in terms of its energy data collection capacities, utilizing its existing expertise, and then creating a separate small body housed under NRCan that would do analysis.

Environment committee  Yes. In our written brief, we did make a recommendation along those lines. The factors that we thought would be important to consider would be climate impacts, indigenous rights, and impacts on indigenous peoples, as well as public input. We would like to see that included in a parameter around the decision that goes into making a decision.

Environment committee  Are you asking a particular participant?

Environment committee  Okay. I am going to quote John Sinclair, who has a submission on impact assessment, because he has a definition in his submission. Meaningful public participation establishes the needs, values, and concerns of the public, provides a genuine opportunity to influence decisions, and uses multiple and customized methods of engagement that promote and sustain fair and open two-way dialogue.

Environment committee  I won't comment directly on that, but I will say that there is definitely a need for flexibility and for understanding that public participation will look different for different projects. In that sense, I don't necessarily see a harm in including a definition of meaningful public participation, but I do think that we need to ensure that what we're legislating makes room for flexibility and adjustment from project to project so that it's something that can be applied in different circumstances and, as Mr.

Environment committee  That's exactly it. We have had rules around public participation for a long time, but I think what we really need to think about is how we can grow institutional culture that not only allows for public participation but actually values it and understands the role that it can play in improving projects.

Environment committee  Yes, exactly, in terms of potentially creating classes, groups of citizens together.