Finance committee  Again, we don't have a mechanism for tracking that provincially. It would be up to the Government of Manitoba as part of their five-year agenda. They have included a plan to develop a centralized wait list. Right now each of the almost one thousand child care facilities keep their own wait list, so there really is no way of knowing.

Finance committee  Unfortunately, we're not with the Government of Manitoba, but I can tell you there are about 28,000 licensed child care spaces that are probably used by more than that number of children. Some attend on a part-time basis, in which case one child might be sharing a space with a couple of others.

Finance committee  We could talk about this all day. A lot of spaces are provided by the Ys in Winnipeg as well, but they have been unable to provide enough spaces to reduce the two- to three-year wait times. A big problem for development of new services is the capital it costs--millions of dollars to go from ground to child care programs.

Finance committee  Yes. That's certainly an option. One of the ways the Government of Canada could be involved is through the funding of infrastructure for child care programs. I know it happens in other areas, and that would be something to look at for the development of services too.

Finance committee  The truth is that it is an income support program, and although we're not opposed to that, what we're looking for is a federal contribution to the provinces that can be used by the provinces to develop child care services.

Finance committee  We can do whatever it takes.

Finance committee  Unfortunately, it is not. The majority of parents who can't access regulated care are using underground care. The fact of the matter is it is a different world out there. I'm quoting my colleague from Athabasca University, who did say that this is the 21st century and most families have two parents in the workforce.

Finance committee  Yes, it is.

Finance committee  No, they don't.

Finance committee  I just want to add that it doesn't happen with a hundred bucks a month that can be spent on anything. You need to leave Manitoba knowing that wait lists for child care are about two to three years across all age groups right now, and it's not being accessible is a barrier to parents who want to enter the workforce or go into job training programs.

Finance committee  The development of new services has been increasing by a few hundred every year. However, there are enough services for less than 20% of the kids who may potentially need it. So the growth is pitifully slow, and what we're sure the data really emphasizes is that the Government of Manitoba could do far better if it had the participation of the Government of Canada contributing to the cost.