Foreign Affairs committee  Absolutely. The other part, too, is that we can rely on our international partners to get us information, but at the same time, we also have to take it with a grain of salt. We can't just take their information as a given, so we tend to not want to completely and blindly rely on them too, but we don't have the capacity to do it on the ground either, so it's a double-edged sword from that perspective.

Foreign Affairs committee  Sure. We have a lot of rules here about contracts and about how you spend money, and about results-based management and about structures and systems and reporting it, all these things, the transparency and the documents that they need to fill in, and the legality of certain things and the contracts they have to sign.

Foreign Affairs committee  I think there are two main reasons, from my experience and my understanding. One reason is we're never prepared for these emergencies. That boggles my mind a little because we've been going through them so many times. When they happen we need to get the money out. We need to get the money quickly and we need to get it to somebody who can actually do the work and implement it quickly.

Foreign Affairs committee  Absolutely. I can confirm it. I've been getting text messages from people in Lebanon, for example, telling me that it's a hoax, something invented, and that you just need to add a little lemon juice to your water. When I tried to analyze where this all came from, I found that it began either in the United States or somewhere in Europe.

Foreign Affairs committee  Okay. I think that international solidarity still exists. Unfortunately, although our solidarity is effective and helpful, there's another one trying to undo everything we're trying to do. As for legitimacy, whether in terms of the pandemic or anything else, the Canadian government's work plan for international development has not really paid close attention to it.

Foreign Affairs committee  Is that question for me?

Foreign Affairs committee  I can take it, then. I can tell you frankly that the developing countries are completely overwhelmed, much more so than here. Essentially, that's because in many of these countries, a lot of people live together, particularly in unstable countries affected by conflicts, where many refugees end up living together.

Foreign Affairs committee  For me, here's what is really important. Again, having worked with the government in what used to be CIDA at that time, I know, for example, that we had locally engaged staff. I know that we tried to draw on local expertise. I also know that we gathered quite a bit of information.

Foreign Affairs committee  I think the biggest thing we should do when we devolve and decentralize is that we need to also have an objective to hear from a wide variety of people and organizations. Devolving and decentralizing does not mean saying “here you go” and being blind to it and moving along. It means making sure that we are doing the participatory approaches that we need to do and that we are talking to a wide gamut of people and trying to understand their situation.

Foreign Affairs committee  In any conflict country, you cannot have zero contact. It's impossible because you need to be able to manoeuvre the terrain. Yes, we do have organizations that are independent. I know for a fact. I helped develop a list of these organizations. Canada knows for a fact that we have these organizations.

Foreign Affairs committee  My comment is not only based on Lebanon but on my experience doing research in conflict-affected states and fragile states. I can attest to the fact that a lot of the leaders involved in the conflict or not involved in the conflict, in the government or outside the government tend to use local civil society organizations to improve their legitimacy and to improve their power.

Foreign Affairs committee  Sure, thank you. Full disclosure, I am Lebanese. I have dual citizenship. I am Lebanese and Canadian. I came here after the civil war ended. I believed...when the explosion happened and we saw the results, all my contacts in Lebanon—because I do have contacts who work in local organizations—realized that there was a commitment that was made, but the actual transfer of the money took very long to get to Lebanon and to get to the institutions that were helping people.

Foreign Affairs committee  Mr. Chair, thank you for the invitation to talk to you about this very important subject we are looking at today. From what I understand, you have already heard from many experts and representatives of UN organizations, as well as international and Canadian civil society organizations about the human impact of COVID-19 in fragile and conflict-affected countries.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you. As I was saying, as a person who was born in and lived through a civil war, worked in international development for the Canadian government on conflict-affected countries and has done significant research on these countries, I can tell you first-hand that this type of legitimacy is very important.