Health committee  There is really no data. That's why the EMA and the WHO have not recommended getting boosters, especially with the original strain of the vaccines, because you're essentially.... It's like recovering from the flu and then you get a vaccine for the previous strain and boosting that response.

Health committee  That's what I was hoping, that we would take a more responsible approach and wait for data. At this time, what they are seeking to do is diversify their portfolio of the types of vaccines available. I know there are a lot in the pipeline still. One of the miracles of the mRNA vaccines was based on the fact that you can just pump them out super fast, and that gave them an advantage so they could be a good filler.

Health committee  It's the fundamental piece of any kind of medical intervention that a person understand their own personal risk from the intervention and their own personal risk from the disease in question. I'm not sure if everyone has been given.... Because it's an evolving science, especially around the new platforms, which are very promising, we don't have very good longitudinal data.

Health committee  I certainly don't disagree with the feedback for having good, rigorous scientific discussion. I think that has been lacking.

Health committee  I believe it's the individual's decision. I believe in education and understanding of the different types of vaccines and their efficacy and safety. They should make that decision for themselves, along with their doctors.

Health committee  I prefer not to respond to that question.

Health committee  I'm an immunologist, so my expertise is not entirely around how one makes decisions around public health. But as a person, I feel that if I don't understand what the mandates are trying to achieve...and it was never really clear to me what the purpose of the mandates was, especially around freedom of movement.

Health committee  With regard to the vaccine efficacy definition, even in Pfizer's, Moderna's and all the vaccine trials, the original definition was for the prevention of infection, not serious disease. From Ontario's data and also the U.K.'s surveillance, they found that people who have two doses, who are fully vaccinated with the mRNA vaccines as well as the viral vector vaccines, after 60 days or so their vaccine efficacy—so you're looking at the number of cases compared to those who are unvaccinated—actually drops below zero.

Health committee  Yes. Unfortunately—and this is what I had spoken to previously—we didn't have capacity. I'm glad to hear that we have invested in having our own GMP manufacturing capacity. Hopefully, they'll get the expertise that's needed to make the type of vaccines that we feel would benefit Canadians.

Health committee  It's actually the gold standard. When we recognize the immunity we get from infection, that's what vaccines are trying to mimic. That's why our biggest successes around eradication have been from live attenuated vaccines, such as the smallpox vaccine, because they most closely mimic that infection.

Health committee  I don't think they should be subjected to the mandate for this, because their immunity does last longer than vaccine-induced immunity. That has been shown in epidemiological studies, and also recently from the U.S. CDC data from California and New York, which showed that there was no benefit with respect to hospitalization for people who have had infection-acquired immunity getting vaccinated.

Health committee  No, you are interpreting the data from non-randomized placebo-controlled trials. I'm not saying vaccines will not prevent hospitalizations, but I don't think coercion is the best way to get people to behave the way you want them to. I think there are lots of health-promoting activities.

Health committee  Yes. Thank you very much. The clinical trials that were done never really assessed the ability of the vaccines to prevent transmission. I haven't come across a component vaccine that is intramuscularly injected that can be very effective in preventing transmission of respiratory viruses long-term, so I think that understanding and having vaccine literacy is really helpful for the population.

Health committee  Okay. Take two. I thank everyone for the opportunity to speak today. The thoughts I'm presenting are my own, as an immunologist, and are not necessarily those of my affiliated organizations. I have submitted notes that contain further data and references for the issues that I'll be addressing today.

Health committee  Thank you, honourable chair and committee members, for the opportunity to speak today. The thoughts I'm presenting are my own, as an immunologist, and not necessarily those of my affiliated organizations. I submitted notes that contained further data and references for the issues I'll be addressing today—