Human Resources committee  There's a lot to be talked about there. First, I think what was said on the commission versus the commission chair is correct. I think there is a clash of philosophy sometimes when we deal with the civil service, an idea that somehow centralizing decision-making and having one expert in the room is better than having all the stakeholders, so to speak, or the people who have different but probably complementary viewpoints on things.

Human Resources committee  This isn't a political question in that sense. I think some extra changes will be needed of the nature I referred to earlier, about the appeal kicking in immediately when a file is contested, instead of waiting for the révision administrative to be done.

Human Resources committee  That's an excellent question, and I think it should be asked of the architects. To be brutally honest, there is a sense that the senior officials responsible for the file are biased toward the status quo. We are trying to preserve as much as possible of what exists. In fact, I think it reflects that very much.

Human Resources committee  Allow me to answer your question. This was one of the most important issues. In fact, Mrs. Kusie asked me what had come out of the consultations, and one of the key things was that people wanted that close relationship with the process. Minister Duclos said at the time that it was to somewhat humanize this whole administrative apparatus.

Human Resources committee  Thank you.

Human Resources committee  Thank you for that. I simply wanted to point out that in the last reform in 2012, the Commission was put on the sidelines, which placed it in the spotlight, and that kept us from playing our watchdog role with respect to appeal system operations. When serious malfunctions occurred around 2013, 2014 and 2015, much like everyone else, we found ourselves watching the rather dismal spectacle without being able to do much about it.

Human Resources committee  Absolutely. Once again, thank you. There was a common thread in everything that was said at the consultations. When people were asked what the most important thing was, they all said we should go back to the old system. The old system was the boards of referees. Another thing that's quite important, but is not covered in Part 5, section 32, is the administrative review process.

Human Resources committee  Okay. I will stop here then. I'm ready to answer your questions.

Human Resources committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Pierre Laliberté and I've been a commissioner for workers at Employment Insurance Commission since 2016. I was therefore present for many of the deliberations on this issue. Having followed all of this quite closely, I have to say that it's a bit disappointing to be here conveying our concerns to you about what is being introduced in Section 32 of Part 5 of Bill C‑19, rather than celebrating the creation of the new board of appeals.

Finance committee  Thanks.

Finance committee  I just want to address one point I was not addressed about, and it's that the budget, unfortunately, wasn't very good for the EI fund. In the last fiscal year, we had a large infusion of money, $35 billion, from general revenues. Now our EI fund will be close to $30 billion in the hole.

Finance committee  There's no mechanism specified in the legislation. The intent was that the selection would be managed through the respective offices of the commissioner for employers and the commissioner for workers. This is done through a process whereby people could individually apply and would need to get sponsorship from employer, labour or community organizations that would vet their skills in the world of appeals, so to speak, and whether they are in good standing with their community.

Finance committee  Thank you for the question, but I'm not altogether sure how that would play out. Quite frankly, I think that the intent behind this reform was.... I don't think there was a problem. I think that there was a general agreement on what the problems to solve were and the vision of what should be created instead.

Finance committee  Correct.

Finance committee  I think that it would be the right way to go and have the proper attention dedicated to it.