Industry committee  I'm sorry, I'm unaware of that. It's kind of the silent question. I will look into that and get an answer for you.

Industry committee  We're already facing—and hearing from our members—a shortage of refrigerant mechanics needed to install heat pumps. Vancouver is facing this shortage. Our contractors are having to go to the U.S. to find people who can come up and assist in achieving this. They have had to send them to the U.S. for training.

Industry committee  That's exactly correct. With the retirements, you're seeing a lot of journeymen who are retiring, and for the contractors, there's that hesitancy to bring on apprentices, because it takes them so long to get upskilled, and they're not always keen to take on four or five first-year apprentices.

Industry committee  There are a few things we need. One of them is, first of all, to address marketing around the skilled trades. Right now it has a negative impact. If you look at Europe, skilled trades are considered a high-class position, and then, for some reason, when we translated it over to the North American market it looks like it's a dirty job and not one that has a lot of potential, which is completely wrong.

Industry committee  I mentioned in my statement that one in five will retire in the next five years. They're also looking at 18% retirees by the year 2030, which estimates to around 260,000 skilled tradespeople who will be retiring by 2030, and there's already that skill shortage. Could you repeat the first part of your question again?

Industry committee  That varies by province. Each province negotiates its own trade agreements. In Ontario they just recently ratified theirs, and I think it's closer to that $50 to $70 range, depending on your years of service—apprenticeship, journeyperson—and the classification that you're in. It does vary by province.

Industry committee  It is actually quite difficult for a small or medium-sized business to keep employees or the skilled trade force fully employed at all times. Right now we're in a situation in which they're very busy with work, so they've been able to maintain those employees. In times of low employment or low construction, it is difficult for them to keep those employees on.

Industry committee  Absolutely. As she was speaking today, I was thinking that is one person I'm going to have to reach out to. Mentorship is very important in our trade. It's not only bringing on new apprentices to do the work—it takes one to five years to complete that apprenticeship—but the need to upskill those who are currently in the trade.

Industry committee  Thanks, Ralph. To be honest with you, I haven't worked that much with the Red Seal program. I know, similar to what Ralph was telling you, that they are working on breaking down the barriers so that the trades can move from province to province. I don't have specific details on that, but I can get that for you.

Industry committee  Good afternoon and thank you for this opportunity. My name is Tania Johnston. I am the chief executive officer of the Mechanical Contractors Association of Canada. MCAC is the largest trade contractor association in Canada. Our organization was established in 1895. We have grown to represent over 1,000 companies nationwide.