Government Operations committee  Thank you.

Government Operations committee  It's increasing the capacity of the public service internally, but also increasing the accountability of the public service. If people internally are going to be handing out these contracts as opposed to using these middlemen, who are really lobbyists.... The ones who are getting the contracts and subcontracting are really acting as lobbyists, who build these relationships and then are the gateway—

Government Operations committee  Yes. The other concern it raises is essentially saying it's a contingency fee payment of future contracts that I will get from you, and you'll pay me then a slice of that contract, essentially, as a success fee. That is illegal under the Lobbying Act. That's the other concern it raises.

Government Operations committee  Yes, that's in the records—

Government Operations committee  Yes.

Government Operations committee  I don't know how regularly that occurs. It is one of the most difficult parts of this situation, I think. How much due diligence has to be done within government before a contract is handed out? The problem with subcontracting is that it exponentially increases the due diligence burden on the government officials.

Government Operations committee  As I mentioned, with the SNC-Lavalin situation there have been so many questions raised, with so much excessive secrecy and silence from the RCMP over four years, that we essentially forced disclosure. We forced them to make a public statement about the situation after four years.

Government Operations committee  As I mentioned, increase in-house capacity and then have advisers to whom you don't have to pay $11 million. Then just contract to those who are bidding, without subcontracting, and the Access to Information Act has to apply to everyone who receives the contract. You can't be hiding subcontractors' names under the so-called Access to Information Act.

Government Operations committee  No. Actually, I never practised law. I was a non-practising member of the bar for 10 years, but I haven't practised.

Government Operations committee  Yes, that's accurate.

Government Operations committee  Yes, that's what the records show.

Government Operations committee  Yes, attempt is covered.

Government Operations committee  It raises a lot of red flags—violations of the Lobbyists' Code, and I believe these people are lobbyists. The Lobbyists' Code does not allow you to lobby someone, which means communicate in respect of their decisions, when you have a relationship with them of friendship that causes the appearance of a conflict of interest.

Government Operations committee  The consequences for violating the Lobbying Act are high, but the RCMP over the last 20 years have shown they won't enforce it. They just bumped five cases of the 11 that had been referred by the Commissioner of Lobbying back to the commissioner, and the commissioner dropped all five.

Government Operations committee  I don't know the averages, because it's not required to be disclosed. You don't have to disclose, unlike in the U.S., how much you are spending on lobbying efforts as an organization, or how much you're paying consultant lobbyists. It should be part of what's disclosed. It's one of the loopholes in the Lobbying Act.