Human Resources committee  I would just add a point made by Cathy Murphy earlier. I definitely agree that kin and customary caregivers should be included in the eligibility for attachment benefits.

Human Resources committee  Definitely, we can ensure equality. In fact, if this bill were to pass or if these benefits were to become part of a system in Canada, in some cases we would actually have more leave than some of the nations that I mentioned. Some don't allow a full year, but the ones I mentioned all allow for equality.

Human Resources committee  There is some evidence of that from our survey. We did survey some awaiting parents. They hadn't necessarily adopted yet. Some said they would have been more likely to adopt a sibling group or adopt a child with special needs if they knew they had more leave. Particularly in those cases where kids are hard to place—it can be very hard to place a sibling group, and it can be very hard to place a child with physical or cognitive disabilities—there is some indication from our survey that some people would have considered those adoptions more seriously if they knew they had a full year of leave.

Human Resources committee  In the report, we use the language of parents bonding with their children and children attaching to their parents—that's how psychologists refer to it—and how bonding to a child certainly can be easier if they're attaching to you. If they express no attachment or unhealthy attachment, it can be very difficult.

Human Resources committee  I think it's definitely worth considering expanding the leave time for people who adopt more than one child at one time. For sibling groups, there are jurisdictions where the adoption of sibling groups makes you eligible for more leave than adopting a single child. I also think it's important to ensure that there's some funding for the supports that the parents need post-adoption.

Human Resources committee  Thank you. We do recommend, for older children who are adopted, that their parents have that additional leave. Some might argue...and it's true that in some countries, actually, there's an age limit on when parents can have additional leave or the same leave given to other adoptive families.

Human Resources committee  I think there should be more flexibility around that point. That was the one thing I highlighted the most in the bill. It does conflict with our report, where we recommend more flexibility and that parents should be able to start the leave before the expected date of arrival of the child to prepare for their arrival.

Human Resources committee  I do think equity is very important here. I think that adding these benefits signals that we, as others have said, value these families and that we're committed to treating them equally. Why would adding these benefits do that? It recognizes, as I said in my summary, that there are unique needs associated with adoption.

Human Resources committee  As I mentioned, I think that if we stick with what we have now, where adoptive parents only qualify for parental benefits and don't qualify for those added maternity benefits and get less leave, we're not recognizing the unique challenges involved with adoption. We're really not valuing and understanding that way of forming families, which I think is really significant, because there's already a normalization of using assisted reproduction, for example, when people can't have children the old-fashioned way.

Human Resources committee  Most countries, even outside the G7 or G20, provide equal leave benefits. Canada really is an outlier. That was one of the most astounding things we discovered through the research: how unusual it is not to provide equal leave benefits. That's something we highlight. We have a chart in the report that highlights what we call “comparator” nations, such as Australia, the U.K., Germany, Sweden and Denmark.

Human Resources committee  I'm not an expert in the measures that have been taken, but I think there are some that have been put forward in response to the crisis. For example, there are many indigenous children in care in Canada. Mr. Angus mentioned methods of dealing with cases where families might lose their children in our current system, such as creating alternatives that might allow children to remain, and providing education and support for their parents so that families don't get disrupted in the first place.

Human Resources committee  Sure. That's a huge issue. We mention it in the report. We tried to give the government an estimate of how much it will cost them to provide these attachment benefits, so we tried to look at how many kids have actually been placed in care. Could we estimate how many would be placed yearly?

Human Resources committee  Definitely. Part of our report touches on the special difficulties that children in care face when it comes to attaching to their new parents. There are definitely heightened challenges there, and that comes from having previous attachments disrupted. I mean, everything that Cassandra said is borne out in the literature, in terms of the difficulty and in terms of the importance of having that attachment to a caregiver.

Human Resources committee  Are there other items that might contribute to the attachment difficulties?

Human Resources committee  There is the disruption of the attachment, but also, as I mentioned in the summary, previous maltreatment by attachment figures. You don't have an attachment figure who is encouraging that secure kind of attachment style, as it's called in psychology, which is encouraging the proper way and the healthy way to attach to another human being.