Finance committee  Unfortunately, the people who would be able to answer this question, the people who are involved in the negotiations with Ontario, are not here. Sorry about that.

Finance committee  It was not a formal dialogue, but I was talking with her about how we might proceed. We are at this time more at the stage of discussing how we are going to proceed on it, because let's remember, the budget was only three weeks ago or so.

Finance committee  I'm sure you agree we have to start somewhere. I'm sure that given the commitment in the budget, we will deliver, and something will come out of it.

Finance committee  What comes out of the economic statement.... What I'm saying is that the statistics we have show that with the tax relief plan proposed in the budget, there will be an additional 200,000 people off the tax rolls compared to the--

Finance committee  Exactly. In fact, today I was talking with Hilary Pearson, president of Philanthropic Foundations Canada--

Finance committee  With the Bloc Québécois proposal, a decision to that effect would have been required, because even if we were to call it a refundable tax credit, it is a benefit. It is money, it is not a tax credit, it does not reduce taxes. People who do not pay taxes will receive the benefit.

Finance committee  Indeed. It was the agreement on the National Child Benefit signed by all provinces. Certain federal benefits would not be considered in calculating provincial benefits.

Finance committee  For the tax credit on the GST as such? Perhaps somebody can answer.

Finance committee  We have not yet started the discussion. We are looking at developing a framework--

Finance committee  The supplement will be eliminated.

Finance committee  The national child benefit supplement is not being eliminated. What is being eliminated is the $247 CCTB supplement that is clawed back with child care expenses; it's that part. The maximum that is being eliminated is $247.

Finance committee  That's right.

Finance committee  I don't have the figures they produced, so I—

Finance committee  Do you mean how much they keep?

Finance committee  A province could decide to do so. First of all, let's take a look at welfare. It is the provinces that decide which income should be included to determine benefits. The provinces may decide whether or not they wish to include or exclude certain federal programs.