Canadian Heritage Committee on May 2nd, 2024

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I call the meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 117 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, November 22, 2023, the committee is resuming its consideration of Bill C-316, an act to amend the Canadian Heritage Act (Court Challenges Program).

Now, as of Monday, when this was announced in the House, we are trying to avoid audio feedback. Before we begin, I would like to remind all members and other meeting participants in the room, if we have any, of the following important preventive measures to prevent disruptive and potentially harmful audio feedback incidents that can cause injuries.

All in-person participants are reminded to keep their earpieces away from the microphones at all times. As indicated in the communiqué from the Speaker to the members on Monday, April 29, the following measures have been taken to help prevent audio feedback incidents.

All earpieces have been replaced by a model that greatly reduces the probability of audio feedback. The new earpieces that you have in front of you, of course, are black. The former grey earpieces are gone. Use only the black ones. By default, all unused earpieces will be unplugged at the start of the meeting.

When you are not using your earpiece, please place it face down on the middle of the sticker for this purpose, which you will find on the table as indicated. Please consult the cards on the table for the guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents.

The room layout, as you have noticed, has been adjusted to increase the distance between microphones and reduce the chance of feedback from the earpieces.

These measures are in place so that we conduct our business without interruption and to protect the health and safety of all participants, including our interpreters here.

Again, thank you for the co-operation.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion concerning connection tests for witnesses, I'm informing the committee that all of our online witnesses today are in compliance and we're ready to go.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I want to mention something that has been the case at the heritage committee. I'm just going to flag it.

Two weeks ago today, we asked for the agreement from the University of Ottawa. I've asked the clerk for it a couple of times, but we still haven't received it, to my knowledge. The department officials were here two weeks ago today. They came with only French scripts on the agreement. I asked them for the English version. We still don't have it. I think it's pertinent. We've had three out of four committee meetings, including today. I would like to see that English agreement by Monday, May 6, at the latest so that we can go through it—at least, those of us who don't follow French as well as we should. I would like to see the department officials get the English agreement from the University of Ottawa into our hands by Monday, May 6.

The other item I want to flag is Bell Media. They were here some two to three weeks ago. We've asked for documents. I would also like those documents by Monday, May 6, and here's why: On May 7, we have—I think they've agreed to come—the president of the CBC, Ms. Tait. A number of us would like those documents from Bell Media in order to compare public-private agreements so that we can ask questions on Tuesday.

I don't think it's too much to ask. We've had two weeks in advance on the one dealing with the Court Challenges Program, and it's been at least three weeks with Bell Media.

Clerk, I would like to see if we can get those documents by Monday, May 6, so we can finish next week—deal with the CBC on Tuesday and then deal with the Court Challenges Program next Thursday. I am personally asking you to get those documents. If we can get them by Monday, May 6, it would really help prepare us for next week.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Ms. Ashton, please go ahead.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Okay.

I'm raising a point of order because, in terms of our list of witnesses today, I see we have one witness, Mr. Brodie, who's been invited back. I'm wondering what led to this situation. We had five witnesses last week who were all impacted by delays and technicalities. None of them has been invited back.

I'm wondering how we got to this point, and I'd also like to express a concern regarding this situation.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay, Ms. Ashton.

I know the clerk did not have a full agenda for witnesses today. Since we only went through one round last Tuesday, Mr. Brodie agreed to come back today. He will not do a five-minute segment like he did on Tuesday. He will be here to answer questions only. There's no need for Mr. Brodie, a professor at the University of Calgary, to go through the five-minute remarks he would normally do. He's just agreed, Ms. Ashton, to answer questions that weren't asked of him on Tuesday, because we only did the one round.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Can I ask a question?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Coteau, hold on.

Ms. Ashton, is that fine?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Well, it's not fine. While I appreciate that the five-minute part won't be shared, none of our witnesses, including the only NDP witness—the main witness we invited last week—had a second round. I am concerned that we are not fair in the treatment of all witnesses from the last session. I would like to extend this to all of our witnesses, frankly, at this point.

I've actually never seen something like this happen before in my 16 years of being on committee. I'm quite concerned that there's been a lack of fairness because we don't all have the same number of witnesses that we suggested.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton, for bringing this up.

I'm going to let the clerk answer this. We were talking just seconds ago.

If you don't mind, clerk, could you give clarification on Mr. Brodie?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Geneviève Desjardins]

It is certainly up to the committee how they would like to move forward with additional witnesses. For Mr. Brodie specifically, the party that put him forward requested to reinvite him since they have more questions, and he counts as one of their witness slots.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Coteau.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Does that mean there is more than witness with us today who was invited by the Conservatives? Is this the only witness?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Yes.

Go ahead, Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am concerned because I had questions I wanted to ask of the organization out of British Columbia and a couple of the other witnesses who were here. I'm not sure how this played out in terms of our deciding....

I'm still speaking. I have the floor, Ms. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, I was just talking to my colleague.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

No, you weren't. I mean, you have a reputation of—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Whoa, that's enough. On a point of order, it's inappropriate to attack someone's reputation. That is wacko.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Before I finish my sentence, you're going to use the word “wacko”. Is that the clip you need, Philip? Is that the clip you need?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Hold on.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

You just got yours, so....

[A voice]

The wacko clip—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

There you go. There's the wacko clip for the day. Whoever has that on their bingo sheet, mark it up, guys.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Noormohamed, please—