Afghanistan Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2009

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

The issue would be with whether they were wearing the leg restraints at the appropriate time, which is supported by the UN standards, which are as follows: was it for the purposes of transfer, was its purpose to prohibit escape, was it for the purposes of preventing self-injury? If you are going to use those restraints for a long period of time, then there's monitoring involved. That's why, whenever I was there, I would make sure to look for signs of distress and--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You indicated that. But that was happening, and those were the methods they were using.

One of the things you also mentioned is that in your request for equipment, you did ask for new boots, and it was suggested--and this has been out before--that for health and safety reasons your staff...and you say “we will be “walking through blood and fecal matter when either on patrol or in the prison”. So there is a clear indication that the conditions in the prison needed to be upgraded.

I want to ask Mr. Proudfoot this. One of the things you mentioned--and this is absolutely key to try to figure out what was happening for a period of about 15 months--regarding the reporting that was being done to the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission is that there were concerns that people weren't able to access that information, or that people weren't actually availing themselves of it. The generals, when they were here, said that during that period before the update of the arrangement they weren't responsible for monitoring detainees after the handover. We've established now that we couldn't figure out where the detainees went because of the arrangement. What we did know is that the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, as well as the Red Cross, were actually making it known that there were concerns about torture. In fact, they had been prolific on that.

Had you read any of those reports?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

A short response, Mr. Proudfoot.

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

The reports by...?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission.

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

I'm aware of the reports by the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But you hadn't read them?

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

I'm not sure which reports you're referring to.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

2006.

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

I can't tell you three years later which specific reports I read when. But I'm aware--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

In your testimony you said you hadn't, so I'm going to assume that that was correct.

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

Well, then I guess that's the case.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Why not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you. That ends our first round.

We'll start with the government for five minutes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Garwood-Filbert, you mentioned that you had a number of years--28 years, I think--in the correctional system. Is it safe to say you've had 28 years of looking at claims of abuse, so there's experience in that kind of environment?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

Yes, we typically get numerous complaints from inmates or prisoners. Some of these complaints are self-serving and some need to be validated. Most are unfounded, and in certain situations, which is important, unfortunately some of those claims may be founded.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Short answers, please, if you could.

With respect to blood and fecal matter, I've been to the Edmonton Max, walking around, and there's blood and fecal matter there. In your experience in Canadian prisons, is that unusual?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

I think there's a misunderstanding. When we were referring to that document and the need to wear boots, it was in reference to the complete breakdown and decay of the sewer and septic system. We were in a situation where we were walking through bloody fecal matter. There was a lot of lung disease, so there was a lot of bloody sputum and things of that nature. That's the context that it was presented in. It had nothing to do with any type of prisoner abuse. It was a health and safety concern for us, the staff at the prison, and the inmates.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Now, can you confirm for me or not, either way, whether you ever had a claim of abuse that was substantiated?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

I did not, in my experience, while I was there.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Never?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

No, sir.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you very much.

You mentioned the use of chains and times when restraints are required for operational prison reasons.

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

Yes, sir.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I think you stated that the issue was really one of a lack of equipment, and that we corrected those deficiencies. Is that a true statement?