Afghanistan Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2009

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

No, we had two correctional officers on the ground, me and another. I had an officer with me until the end of July 2007. From that point forward, I was the only officer on the ground.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Colvin told us that some detainees had no connection with the Talibans and that most were innocent. I think I read in your reports that some of them were not even 18.

Can you confirm that?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

I'm not familiar with any of Mr. Colvin's reports, because I wasn't privy to them and I had no dealings with Mr. Colvin. If you're talking about prisoners, yes, there are prisoners in the Afghan prison system who are juveniles. So that is a true statement. With regard to child detainees, those persons who have been taken by a military force, that has happened from time to time. So we did deal with those issues. We tried to keep child detainees separate from adult detainees, which is a basic human right. When we learned of those situations, we did endeavour to keep those detainees separate from adult prisoners, yes.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I have some short questions and I would ask you to also respond briefly because I want to give some time to my colleague.

When you noticed improper things, did you inform the officers of the provincial reconstruction team? Did you have a specific way of supervising detainees? Did you make follow-ups and keep proper records about that? I want to know if you were pressured by the government to say as little as possible both here and before the complaints commission. Did anyone, I would not say threaten, but seriously caution you against saying too much here today?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

I'll answer your last question first because it's most recent in my memory.

No pressure has been put on me whatsoever. These are full and complete statements of what I personally observed in interviews. I have been able to report all my comments in my reports, and today in my opening statement, freely without any restrictions whatsoever.

With the number of visits we had, we were always following up on issues, such as the use of restraints, fresh-air exercise, and those types of things. We encouraged and mentored the different personnel in the different detention centres to work through with those issues. If it was a matter of not having proper equipment, we tried to provide it. If it was a matter of not understanding the prison law, the prison regulations, or an international standard, we worked with them on that.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Go ahead.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Chair, I will start with a couple questions to Mr. Proudfoot.

According to my notes, you said that at the beginning of 2007, you became increasingly aware that improvements were required. You said a little later that in March and April 2007, you contributed to the improvement of the arrangement.

Can you tell us what improvements you thought were required and why? What improvements were actually made?

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

Sure.

Two types of improvements were made in 2007. First, we strengthened and formalized the relationship between the Government of Canada and the Afghan Human Rights Commission. We sent some Correctional Service officers to Kandahar. At the time, it was mainly to improve the conditions or the capacities of the Afghan correctional system. We developed a contingency plan to be used in case information was received about mistreatment of detainees.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Did you often hear of such mistreatment?

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

We received information about that for the first time in April 2007.

Finally, to answer your question, it is the supplemental arrangement of May 3 that really changed several aspects of the Canadian capacity to ensure—

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In your opinion, what were the most important aspects of this improvement?

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

First, as compared to the 2005 MOU, the 2007 arrangement provides for Canadian officers to have access to detainees and to make follow-ups. For example, the detainees transferred by Canadian Forces were to be held in designated places in order to facilitate follow-ups.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Is the follow-up provided for in paragraph 7 which instructed—

[Douglas Scott Proudfoot]

Yes, exactly, it is in paragraph 7.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you. We'll have to come back to that.

We'll go to the government now for seven minutes.

Mr. MacKenzie.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank the panel for being here today. This is a most important committee in what we're studying.

Ms. Garwood-Filbert, on page 5 of your original opening statement you indicated one incident where a detainee had been told by others about beatings, and so on. Then you said that six indicated they themselves had been beaten, including two prisoners who claimed to have been beaten by the.... Can you tell me if they were Canadian detainees?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

When I use the word “prisoner”, it's in the context of not being a military detainee. In that respect it would have been someone who approached us on one of our visits and brought this information forward. We had such an incident in April, where we were approached by prisoners in NDS, and then we have the situation here that you're referring to, the ANP allegations.

It's important to know that the National Directorate of Security...it's not all military detainees. It could be a prisoner who is there because their crime has impacted the security or the integrity of the Afghan government. It could be a person who's there because of kidnapping, money laundering, counterfeiting, or high-profile crimes. Just because they're in a national security unit does not make them a detainee.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

So these six you were speaking to were not Canadian-transferred detainees?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

The six I was speaking to, yes. We had them identified on our list to interview, and we did interview those persons, and they did make those allegations. However, it is an allegation. It's a comment made. We tried to verify the comments and were unable to do so.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Okay.

I believe you indicated that you'd been and made 47 visits.

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

Yes, sir.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

That's a lot of visits, I think anybody would agree. Would I be correct in suggesting that Correctional Service officers from Canada who were sent to Afghanistan, you included, would have had training to detect abuse and torture?

[Linda Garwood-Filbert]

I specifically did not have that training. However, I do have a background in 28 years in corrections and I have certainly seen all types of injuries and trauma, whether it's from prison violence or domestic abuse or all of those types of things. Typically in these types of interviews, if someone made an allegation, we would ask them if they had sought medical attention, if they bore any marks or scars. The prisoners in the situations I was involved in were not able to provide us with that concrete evidence.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Are you saying that in those 47 visits you didn't see the physical evidence of torture?