Agriculture Committee on May 10th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Atamanenko.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for coming.

I would say at the beginning that I do think the research and innovation work that AAFC does is good work. But you'll hear from me and from a lot in the farming community that really you've almost forgotten about the key player in the system, and that's the primary producer. Or certainly this is the perception out there.

If you look at the research that the primary producers benefit from, it's really the research from the 1970s, when they did discoveries research. Canola was one of those varieties, and other barley varieties, even potatoes, were targeted to some of our microclimates in this country. Now we're dependent on partnerships with Monsanto and others, and they're looking at short-term gain for their mass markets that they can profit by. So I think there's a real shortcoming in Agriculture Canada in terms of discovery research.

In fact I could go to a number of witnesses, but I'll go to the ones from P.E.I., who said clearly, when they were before us, that in research, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada has lost touch with the farm community. The new direction in research is not targeted at the farm community. From their perspective, and I know it as well, dealing with Harrington station in P.E.I., there now isn't the rapport between the primary producers and researchers that there once was. Part of that was the policy decision due to the budget cutting in 1995; I realize that.

How do you respond to that? How do we get back to research? I've looked through the estimates, and if I go to your chart on strategic planning, really, other than the economic benefits for all, really none of those categories are specifically focusing on research at the primary production level other than, yes, we're going to find some of these value-added markets and so on. The theory is that the money will come back to the farmer. The problem is that it never does. How do we fix that problem?

Secondly, I wonder if you could provide for the committee a list--I've looked through all the documentation, and I can't find it anywhere, unless it's on this disc--of the research stations under Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and what specifically they do in research. What's their specialty, I guess, for lack of a better word?

On that point, I might even say that one of the complaints with AAFC that I've heard internally--you might as well know it--is the way you manage your system now. There are a lot of man-hours and woman-hours spent on travelling the region in terms of a management perspective rather than actually doing on-the-ground research.

So perhaps you would cover some of those areas.

[Marc Fortin]

That's quite a bit of ground to cover there.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

And please keep your remarks relatively brief so that we don't go over the time.

[Marc Fortin]

Yes, thank you.

Are we abandoning the primary research in favour of value-added products--the new research, if you wish? The potato grading still continues. The wheat grading continues. These are the bread and butter, so to speak, of farmers or producers. These varieties produce and have produced. Canola is still $3 billion to $4 billion a year of farm gate value.

We're doing some of the new research with new funds. The minister has announced ABIP, the agricultural bioproducts innovation program. That's the value-added research we're doing. Those funds are over and above the set of activities we've always done and will continue to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Easter, your time has expired.

Please keep your comments short.

Mr. Easter does make a valid comment. This is happening right across the country in all research stations.

[Marc Fortin]

We launched a new set of hirings in January. There are 17 positions being staffed right now. Scientists are being recruited.

We are relaunching the hiring of scientists, in terms of managers travelling the country rather than spending time on the ground.

We have reassigned the science directors. They are now regional science directors as of April 1, 2007.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Easter, you had requested a chart, breaking everything out.

[Marc Fortin]

We'll be happy to provide that. The website will be relaunched in June with that information as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

You have five minutes, Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

There is no doubt as to the quality of the leadership at the Agriculture and Agri-food Canada Research Branch. Our entire country has benefited tremendously from its work over the past century.

I would like to discuss the Research Branch's strategic orientation. I know that you are working on a number of issues at any one time and, in agriculture, there is never a shortage of issues to be studied, especially with regard to plant genetics, animals, biomass research, etc.

Do you have a plan for the next five or six years? How is it decided? I know that you mandate research projects to universities, but you surely have an overall strategic orientation.

[Marc Fortin]

The Science and Innovation Strategy announced by the minister last year, in May 2006, sets out, for the first time in decades, a strategic orientation. Discussions are also currently under way on the Agriculture Policy Framework. Consultations are currently being held. The Agriculture Policy Framework will also guide our research activities.

We worked together with stakeholders, such as producers, producers' associations and processors, to develop the May 2006 Science and Innovation Strategy. We consulted representatives from all sectors of the agricultural and agri-food industry.

In the fall, we also plan to begin running foresight exercises: this will allow us to carry out long-term risk assessments and to ensure that we undertake the necessary research to be prepared for any forecast eventualities. It often takes between 5 and 15 years to reap the benefits of research. Long-term research is needed. We have to carry out this research in order to be able to cope with different scenarios in the future.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

I am sure that biomass is one of your priorities. When did you first start carrying out studies on biomass?

[Marc Fortin]

The Agricultural Bioproducts Innovation Program, the ABIP, launched by the minister, has received 98 funding requests over the past few days. It is a very successful program and has a $145 million budget.

Given that we received almost $1 billion in funding requests last week, it would seem that this program is responding to the scientific community's needs.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Still on the topic of biomass, have you had discussions with other countries? Countries around the world seem to be racing to carry out research into biomass.

Are countries around the world locked in a race to discover the best means of producing ethanol or other substances? Is there a healthy dialogue happening between countries? Will the winner keep its findings to itself so that it can sell its technology to other countries? How does it work?

[Marc Fortin]

Different countries have different options open to them with regard to biomass. South America is obviously focusing on sugar cane. In the United States, corn could prove to be their best source of biomass energy. As for Canada, we are very rich in cellulose. However, cellulose technology is not as developed as corn and sugar cane bioethanol technology. As a result, fewer countries have undertaken this type of research.

Yesterday, we hosted a European delegation. We are continuing discussions with them with a view to developing joint scientific capacities, because the challenges we face are not insignificant. Extracting energy from cellulose is no easy task. We have to work together. We do not have a monopoly when it comes to ideas on the subject.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Is your dialogue with other countries going well? Is there contact between Canada and each one of these countries' agriculture departments, or is there no real collaboration?

[Marc Fortin]

The collaboration is essentially occurring at the level of scientific organizations. As I said, we hosted a European community delegation yesterday—the Europeans have implemented funding programs worth 53 billion euros, or $70 billion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Cardin.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Agriculture is not my specialty. Generally, I focus on international trade, but we do often talk about agriculture. You seemed to be wondering about the relationship between health and agricultural and agri-food products. One dictum states that we are what we eat, and in my view, the relationship is indeed that direct. You have talked about innovation and science, two things that of course involve the production of primary products, but they also involve the processing of those products.

We also use biotechnology, genetic manipulation and chemicals in the production process. In international trade, we know that with the Security and Prosperity Partnership, the agriculture and agri-food goal is not to feed the population but to be productive, make money, export, and increase the trade balance as much as possible—in other words, the goal is to compete with other countries but not necessarily by applying the same rules they do.

For example, we know that the United States authorize the use of a fair number of chemicals that we do not authorize here. Take ice cream as an example of a processed product. As my colleague was saying earlier, in Quebec we can barely find ice cream made with real milk and real cream, like in the past. The products are all modified now.

Given the close relationship between health and nutrition, to what extent can we say that, in the long term, the biotechnologies and other sciences that modify products so profoundly with the stated goal of making agriculture profitable will not have negative impacts on health?

[Marc Fortin]

It is very important for new products to be subject to credible regulations. In Canada, we apply a regulatory system based on scientific knowledge, and we must continue generating scientific data to support regulatory approval.

I have examined the transcripts of the hearings you have held across Canada. In many cases, people bring up the regulatory framework. The Canadian regulatory framework must remain credible. There are no deficiencies in the system, and we have to continue generating the scientific data needed to support the regulatory framework and ensure that products put on the market need cause no concern to consumers. If there are worries, those worries should be based on scientific data and not on myths or fear mongering.

If we look around us at the grocery store, we can see that most products are not fresh. Fresh products include meat, milk, fruit and vegetables. However, most of the space is taken up by processed products. We are increasingly insisting that processed products bear labels indicating when they are health products, and where applicable, we have to ensure that the health-product label is credible, and based on credible scientific data.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

In something like international trade, where—as I was saying earlier—everyone is not applying exactly the same rules, we might end up applying the lowest common denominator. The US is putting more and more pressure on us. The Canadian government is even considering raising the acceptable limit for chemical residue, for hundred of fruits and vegetables sold in Canada.

You say that our standards are credible, but in dealing with other countries—including the United States—don't we risk lowering our standards on chemicals used in agriculture to make things easier, rather than raising all kinds of insects that serve as pest control and foster better production?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Monsieur Cardin, your time has expired.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Can we expect standards to be lowered?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

A very short response, please, to Mr. Cardin's questions.