Agriculture Committee on May 28th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay. We have limited time here.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

In fact, I think this is in order. If you recall at the last meeting when we had the Wheat Board here, there was a motion tossed on the table and it was debated. I'm saying it's in order.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It's in order, Chairman.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

I think once I explain it, you'll understand much better.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I wasn't saying it wasn't in order. We just have limited time here.

You'll have to read your motion into the record, Mr. Atamanenko.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

The motion states:

That the Competition Bureau of Canada be ordered to provide in both official languages the documents as required by the motion passed by the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food on March 24th, 2009; and that the documents be provided to the Clerk of the Committee no later than September 18th, 2009.

I'll just explain why I'm doing this. About two months ago a motion was passed by this committee that ordered the Competition Bureau to provide copies of any and all studies and briefings and/or analysis documents pertaining to the approval and/or denial of all sales, mergers, and acquisitions of meat slaughter packing, processing facilities and livestock auction facilities in Canada from the year 2005 to current, at least four days before you were to appear here.

Now, it's my understanding you have provided the committee with approximately 800 pages of largely court orders and the products of those court orders without translations. They obviously cannot be distributed according to the rules. Having spoken to the clerk about the nature of the documents, apparently there are no studies or briefings or analysis documents. In other words, it's not what was asked for in the motion.

The motion basically states that we want what I asked for by the date of September. That's all I'm trying to do here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Any discussion of the motion?

Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I just want to discuss a few points.

This is the binder that has been submitted so far. We are not being televised, but wouldn't that be roughly five inches thick?

[Some hon. members]

Four.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you. Once again there is helpful assistance from my colleagues on the other side.

Chair, through you, I just want to understand. Alex feels that's not the information he required. Maybe he can confirm that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

No, I believe what Mr. Atamanenko is saying is that that's the information he requires, but in order to have it circulated by the laws that we operate under here, the procedures--in order for it even to be distributed to Mr. Atamanenko--it has to be in both official languages. Am I correct?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Yes and no. According to the clerk, the material I requested really is not reflected in the binder. There are a whole bunch of court documents and things. Maybe there are a few documents in there, but in effect this is not what I asked for. It's not a matter of translating that big binder.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Chair, maybe I'll just go back to my point, then.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay. I just have a little question of clarity. If you haven't seen it, how do you know...?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

In talking with the clerk, she basically led me to believe, in looking through the binder.... So it's not a matter of translating the whole four inches of binder, basically.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We have a rule on bilingualism. It is very important: documents must be distributed in both official languages. But we would like to make sure that the information we need is there. We do not want to do a huge translation of information that is of no use to the committee.

As I understand it, each member of the committee can go to the clerk's office to look at the documents. So Alex could go to the clerk's office himself to see if the material is of use, rather than a third person doing so.

We can then see what information comes in and how best to deal with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Atamanenko.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

I think passing this motion doesn't preclude what we're doing. All that would do is say that there's some information in there that can be translated right away and there is other information that needs to be received. All I'm requesting in this is that we get all this stuff by September. So I think if we pass the motion today, we can go along and do this--

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Atamanenko, do you want to be a little more specific on exactly what you're looking for? This is an old Liberal trick, where you throw six inches of pages at somebody and you really don't.... What you want is in there, but you can't find it.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

I haven't seen that document. I am told by the clerk that the analysis and studies...it's basically a bunch of court orders and other information that may not even be relevant. It's possible, in looking through that in detail, that there may be some documents that are relevant that then could be translated. But it doesn't seem to me, from what I understand, that it's worthwhile translating this four-inch binder.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Any specific areas?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Well, we're looking at the whole sales, mergers, acquisitions, of these meat slaughter, packing, processing facilities since 2005 to the current year, which I think is really relevant to what we're trying to do here in the area of competition. I think we perhaps deserve to have that information when we come back in September.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay. I'm going to take Mr. Lemieux and Mr. Easter, and then call the motion.

Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Chair, I actually want to work with Alex on this, but the concern I have is...for example, if this binder had been translated first and then distributed to committee and then it was determined that it wasn't the correct information.... The cost of translating a brick like that is $20,000 to $40,000. Those are the estimates I've heard, and the amount of time, of course, that is required.

That's why I'm hesitating to pass the motion, where whatever is submitted automatically gets translated, automatically gets handed out to the members, if there is a concern that whatever is going to be submitted--especially if it's thick like that--may not be pertinent to what Mr. Atamanenko is actually looking for. Normally, when we ask for reports, presentations, and copies of speeches to be distributed, they're four or five pages long, and that's not a big issue. But this is a different matter. That's why I'm hesitating here. I'm completely in favour of having documents translated for committee.

It is very important.

I only want to make sure that we don't misspend the committee's time and resources translating something that isn't actually pertinent--