Agriculture Committee on Nov. 30th, 2010

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. Very good.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Ms. Bonsant, five minutes.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Ms. Oliver, when I ran for office in 2004, I visited a farmer who had just sold a cow and received a one-cent cheque for it. She kept the cheque and, every time I go buy beef from her, I see it and have a good laugh. I was stunned to learn that, in your opinion, the AgriStability program is a failure. However, I understood from Mr. Mutch's comments that, previously, the program's lifespan was seven years, but that, today, it is set for five years.

If the seven-year AgriStability program were brought back, would that be a better way to help farmers?

[Ernie Mutch]

I don't quite understand. The seven years was the seven-year cycle within the industry—the highs and the lows.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

But currently, it's a five-year program, right?

[Ernie Mutch]

No, the cycle is gone. Ever since BSE in 2003, we've lost the highs and lows; we don't have that anymore. It's just been lows since then. That was my comment on the seven-year cycle, and the hog industry as well. The cycle seems to have gone out of those industries.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

That's perhaps not exactly how your comments were translated.

Ms. Oliver, your financial situation is still fragile, which isn't really helping agricultural stability.

Earlier, you talked about finding solutions. We need to come up with solutions because there is a lot of talk of recovery, of young farmers. If solutions are not found, what do you think will happen to young farmers?

[Linda Oliver]

I have a young farmer at home. Our oldest son stayed in the business, and I wish he hadn't. He's in the purebred Red Angus business. He works two jobs to keep the farm going. In 2003, his future plan was to no longer be working at his job and strictly be working with his cows. But the situation didn't allow for that.

In our area, all the kids are gone. They don't want to get into farming—not in livestock. Some are coming back for grain farming, but as far as livestock is concerned, we call it child abuse.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I see. Are there any other comments?

[Brian Gilroy]

After I got the call from the committee to come today, I called around to some of our local apple producers. We're also coming into our year-end, so there will be elections to the next executive for the Georgian Bay Fruit Growers Association, 67 apple growers in the Georgian Bay area.

We've worked hard at getting the younger ones to get involved. I'm sad to say that almost all of our younger ones are looking at wrapping up how they're going to run an operation; they're looking at closing down within two years. They're looking at focusing more on the retail and less on the growing. They can make a bit of money selling directly to the consumer, but they are very limited in their ability to make money growing food.

[Ernie Mutch]

On young farmers, my family immigrated from Scotland in 1786, and we've been raising livestock in P.E.I. since that time. I have two brothers who still farm, and I'm sad to say that I believe we're the last generation. We all have sons, but none of them are going to farm. It's really sad. I'm sure my family is not the only case across Canada; there are lots of others as well. It's a sad, sad situation.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

There is something I fail to understand. In Quebec, we have set up a system to help the new generation, the young farmers, and so on. What really bothers me, in committee, is when people talk about implementing a national program for agriculture. I am against doing that because we, in Quebec, have absolutely no intention of supporting initiatives that will disadvantage Quebec farmers.

I think that, for once, Mr. Lemieux is right. I think that provincial governments need to step up to the plate and help their farmers because farmers are the ones who feed the world population. Our governments are having a hard time understanding the importance of the work farmers do.

What do you think about the Conservatives constantly saying that we must think of our “taxpayers”?

Do you pay your taxes?

[Linda Oliver]

Yes.

[Ernie Mutch]

Yes.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Listening to the Conservatives, I was under the impression that farmers don't pay any taxes. That's all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Mr. Shipley, you have five minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

I really do appreciate, as my colleague has said, your taking the time to come and be part of this forum as witnesses.

I've been listening when we talk about the former programs—Brian, you talked about the Tripartite—and I can never get away from my colleagues across the table who keep criticizing our government for not fixing something that they created.

Two members over there have “honourable” in front of their names, meaning they sat at the cabinet table and allowed the change from NISA to go to a margin-based program.

We have to understand that NISA would have still been here. It didn't have to go. Politically, somebody made a decision to get rid of it to save money, rather than fixing it.

I totally agree that AgriStability is not fair. It doesn't pay out in a fair manner across the country. But under the policy that came forward with it...unilateral decisions by the federal government are not there anymore. The province has its say in it.

Mr. Mutch, I know you said P.E.I. is a have-not province. Actually, Ontario was the top province and is now at the bottom. They make priorities. When you talk to my colleagues across the way from Quebec, you will find that their province actually makes a priority choice on agriculture because we've now increased the transfers to the provinces by 25%. They make choices in which dollars are made out.

Mr. Mutch, just to tip away from that, you talked about the advance payment program being very good. Then you sort of went away and said it's really not going to work because you can't get it paid back. I understand those concerns. We're seven months away from the deadline. Do you see your organizations making another plea at that time, with good background on that, if there's an extension needed?

Secondly, those agreements were signed by people. Was it the intention, do you think, that some of them would not ever be able to pay away? You talked about how the cattle are likely sometimes gone, so I'm wondering how they expect to pay that back.

Next I would like to go to Brian.

Thank you again, Brian. When we were up visiting in your area earlier on, we talked about tornadoes. I can tell you, when I was growing up I learned what it is like to have straw sticking in the wall after your barn has partly disappeared. That's the force that tornadoes have. We had that in our house. The consistent thing is that when we walked shoulder to shoulder with our neighbours and everybody else, it was the Mennonites who came in and walked with us to help clean up.

There was a farm about a mile away, which I ended up buying. About half of it ended up at our place, including the house and the barn. The ferocity of those tornadoes is incredible.

The problems with AgriStability in terms of years, working with the provinces—what sort of reaction have you had from the provinces in terms of being able to make the changes, the Olympic changes, to extend it out if it needs to be longer than the five years, taking the three best of it? How are those discussions going?

I wonder if you could talk about that, and then Mr. Mutch, if you could answer those other two....

[Brian Gilroy]

The non-supply-managed commodities in Ontario have been lobbying the provincial government consistently for over a year now to get some sort of a business risk management program developed that does take into account the cost of production. I know that's a little bit different from what you've asked about, but that's the answer that non-supply-managed agriculture is looking for—not tweaking AgriStability, but basically looking at a companion program for that.

The province has had a grains and oilseeds business risk management cost of production program in place now for three years, and they just extended it to a fourth year. Minister Mitchell, who's also from next door to Larry, did take it forward to the federal minister and asked that it be considered. The challenge is that the formula required to amend AgriStability is fairly complex and requires, I believe, seven of ten provinces and whatnot.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

We have time for two....

Did you want to comment on this? Go ahead quickly, please.

[Ernie Mutch]

I agree with your comments on the NISA program. I think, when we look back, it was the combination of government and producers. I think when government looked at the amount of money that was sitting there in the NISA program, they said, you know, this is not working, because producers were using it as a retirement fund, so they probably looked at it to change the program.

I think all governments have responsibilities. Our provincial government certainly has a responsibility to agriculture, and we impress that upon them all the time. I think it's a combination of all governments working together. I have envied livestock producers--or all farmers--in Quebec for years. The Quebec government is really supportive of the agriculture industry there through the ASRA program, and hats off to them for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

We have time for two three-minute rounds.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have just one quick question. Linda, you're basically saying that AgriRecovery isn't working for livestock producers, essentially cow-calf producers, in your particular area, because there haven't been rapid enough payouts. Is that correct?

[Linda Oliver]

That's correct. It's not province-wide.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That seems to be, from your perspective, different from how the grain industry has been treated in light of the latest weather problems.

[Linda Oliver]

Approximately 31% of the RM's in Saskatchewan were declared disaster areas, and we are in the most disastrous area of a disaster area.