Agriculture Committee on June 4th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

No, but how much?

[Bill Ferguson]

It would probably take about a minute to go through.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay, a minute's fine.

[Bill Ferguson]

It's page 11 in the report, and it says:

Clothianidin’s—

—which is part of the neonicotinoids—

major risk concern is to nontarget insects (that is, honey bees). Clothianidin is a neonicotinoid insecticide that is both persistent and systemic. Acute toxicity studies to honey bees show that clothianidin is highly toxic on both a contact and an oral basis.

It goes on to explain the percentages and the rest of it.

Just as a comment, I was thinking that they sprayed around us, and I see the blossoms that are coming out and the drift that's gone over the yard. My wife likes birds, so we have quite a bird feeder outside, so it isn't only affecting the seeds and everything else. I was watching the hummingbirds, and as the season progresses, they're going to start feeding on the other flowering plants that are affected. Who's going to find a dead hummingbird? That's what I was thinking.

One of the other things this study shows is that in some of the birds they tested, it also thins the shell. So we're back to the DDT conditions that we had several years ago when it was banned.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Schuit.

[David Schuit]

From our own experience, we're blessed with seven children.

When we had all this corn planting.... We're thinking, “Is it linked?” I don't know, but two of my kids had pounding, sore heads. Three of my children have clusters of hair coming out of their heads. My boy, who is 17 years old, gets mad at his sister, and says, “Why is your hair all over?” We say, “Jonathan, it's your hair. Look, it's all over the place.”

I don't.... This is the first time I've talked about it, but this is.... I don't know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay, time is up, but on that, Mr. Schuit—

[David Schuit]

I don't know that they're....

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

—I was going to ask some of this stuff at the end after all the witnesses.

But, stuff like that, I mean, we don't know that it's this product. I'm not doubting it; I'm just saying.... So I would advise you to visit your doctor. Take your son to the doctor and find out, and then verify that. Because whatever this is, we have to make sure that the results are science-based, science-proven, not just suspicion. So I'll leave it at that.

[David Schuit]

Exactly right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay.

Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I wanted to take just a few moments to explain a few things that I've been looking into as I've been listening to us talk about this problem. Certainly there's no issue there—that the operators of beehives, beekeepers, face challenges. It's not the first year. It's been over a number of years.

One thing I wanted the committee members to know, in particular, is that there is research being done. You had mentioned a researcher up in Beaverlodge, which is right. Absolutely, there's a fellow there. One of his areas of expertise is the management and detection of honeybee diseases. This is one of the things that he would be knowledgeable about.

I also want you to know, in case you might not know, he is a member of the World Organization for Animal Health on honeybee pathology, so looking at what it is that causes the death of honeybees. He's also a member of the national steering committee of the pesticide risk reduction program for the Canadian honeybee industry. That's very focused. There's a national steering committee on the Canadian honeybee industry, looking at risk reduction programs for that. So that's what he's involved with.

In addition to that, there are a number of projects that have been funded. By the list I have, about 35 projects have been funded, to about $3.5 million, looking at all aspects of beekeeping and what's happening to bees. What's interesting is that there are provincial beekeeping associations that have had projects funded, so for example, Quebec, B.C., Manitoba, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, P.E.I. They've all put in for funding and have had projects approved, and some of them are for quite high amounts, like $400,000, or $350,000. They are not all small amounts.

There have also been other associations, the ones who'd be interested in the pollination offered by bees. For example, there is New Brunswick Blueberries, Seeds of Diversity of Canada, Bay Organics, Saskatchewan Alfalfa Seed Producers Development Commission. Universities are involved, like the University of B.C. and Acadia University, as well.

Anyway, I just wanted to let my colleagues know, in particular, and to let you know in case you weren't aware. There is research being done. There are projects being funded, and they are across the country. In the one sense, it is advantageous because there may be regional types of influences. Of course, there may also be larger influences, but there are many different players involved in the research here.

The other comment I wanted to spend a moment addressing was about the programming. David, I think you had mentioned there's no programming available. I wanted to give you some assurance that there is programming available. I think the first is AgriInvest. This is a federally and provincially shared program, where you are able to invest a dollar and the government matches it with a dollar. There are limits to what you can invest. Basically the first, I believe, 15% of loss is covered by AgriInvest, where we match your contributions dollar for dollar. So AgriInvest is definitely a program, and you get to make the call on when you think you need to use or access this money.

The second program is AgriStability. AgriStability is not based on what's affecting your business. It's just based on your business revenues. So there are tax returns that are necessary to be filed. We've heard a lot about AgriStability. I do want you to know that when there's a drop in how well your farm is doing financially—and it can be based on a number of different factors—if the loss is large enough, AgriStability is there to help you and other farmers, not just beekeepers but other farmers as well.

At the provincial level there's a honey insurance program. There has not been a lot of participation, to the best of my knowledge. It's not run by us. It's a provincial program, so I can't give you details on that. There is Agricorp in Ontario. Agricorp is the organization that manages the honey insurance program. Then there's RMP. My understanding as well is that beekeepers are eligible for RMP, which is the risk management program. This would also be managed by Agricorp. Again, the risk management program is an Ontario program. It's not a federal program. It's not a cost-share program. But it is a program that is production based as opposed to being margin based, like AgriStability is.

So anyway I just wanted to cover some of this ground. In no way is it meant to diminish the challenges that you're facing. It's simply meant to provide information that you may not have had. My experience has been oftentimes farmers are very focused on what's going on right there on their farm. They have their families as well, and sometimes it's harder to see what kind of programing might be out there. I'll be the first to admit that going to government websites is not always easy. Whenever I've gone to a government website, I get turned around, so I can imagine how easy it is to not find what you're looking for on a government website.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Lemieux made reference to a number of programs, and I don't mean the business risk management, I'm talking about all the research that's being done.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Can you tell us whether it's specific to this issue or just general research?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes. I can give you—

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

He's implying that it is specific to this research, which is the issue before us, when it may not be and I don't want there to be any misunderstanding or any misleading statements.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

It's not a point of order, but if Mr. Lemieux wants to answer....

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It's not a point of order, but a lot of these projects have to do with the sustainability of bees.

“Nutritional value and pesticide content of pollen collected by commercial honey bees”, that's the Nova Scotia Beekeepers' Association. “Bee-vectoring Technology...beneficial fungal agents to promote the health, quality and productivity of the bee pollinated crops...”.

I'm telling you—you can look at the list after—there's a list here of different projects. They do focus on a lot of the different aspects of beekeeping and what bees do, but also on the survivability and the threats to bees.

I wanted to ask a question about...or is that it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Well, you're actually way over.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay, that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Schuit had a comment that he wanted to make.

[David Schuit]

Okay, if I could have a quick question. Those programs, do they also cover when your bees have died because of chemicals?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes. What I was explaining was that.... For example, AgriInvest, it doesn't have to do with how your bees are dying; it has to do with you contributing to the program. The government matches it by $1, and if the revenue of your farm operation drops, whether it's pesticides or other reasons, you should be able to use that money to cover some of the losses. It's the same with AgriStability. It's looking at the margins and the revenues of your farm, not so much at what it is that has caused that.

[Davis Bryans]

But it only covers what you earned on the income before. That doesn't really cover the expense of the equipment and everything else that you're losing out of this.