Agriculture Committee on April 7th, 2014

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Yes, I did, sir.

I would probably concur with the parliamentary secretary's take on what the other parliamentary secretary actually said to me last week, which is fair enough.

The government, in its initial bill, had specificity at 500,000 tonnes per railroad. My concern with this amendment is that it would actually take the specificity out. Quite frankly, after watching the two CEOs of the two railroads here with us last week, I would have great reluctance to take any number away from them, because I think, quite frankly, they would then give us a rationale and reasoning as to why they couldn't meet “this amount”, which would be whatever that number was. Heaven knows their service has been bad enough as it is, in my view. Albeit that's a layman's view, shall I say.

I would have to suggest at this point that I don't think we can actually support that. But we do have, coming up, a suggestion the government may want to think about that is specific, and then the other piece is non-specific. As Mr. Lemieux pointed out, they don't want to drill down too deeply. The other piece that we were suggesting I think actually fits the bill a little more succinctly.

I recognize, Mr. Chair, that I should speak to that when it comes before us and not now, so I'll leave my comments and end it there.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you, Mr. Allen.

Go ahead, Mr. Payne.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I agree with my colleague across the way. We certainly don't want to change any limits that we've already set on the railways.

The other thing is, we did hear from witnesses that there are great concerns already because of the million tonnes that other organizations, other products, will not be moving. So I think that after we start getting far more prescriptive, we're going to see a much bigger hornet's nest than is already there with the grain.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Mr. Eyking, quickly.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Well, I'm shocked. I've known Mr. Anderson a long time. I'm shocked that he's changed his tone on this. Maybe he likes his job as P.S. so much that I don't know what it is—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Chair, seriously. He's not even here to defend himself.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

—but I'm surprised that a P.S. from Ontario could whip a Prairie P.S. into going along with toeing the line.

But that being said, the vice-president at the Federation of Agriculture stated right here that:

....Bill C-30 does not carry sufficient teeth to keep producer cars available and make the railways accountable for spotting of producer cars, they will be forgotten.

Also, Mr. Etsell said that he recommends:

...that Bill C-30 contain provisions that ensure that priority is given to Canadian feed grain and other value-added Canadian markets...

It was stated over and over again that we're not taking care of our own here to make sure that the grain is moved properly.

This is one I really thought would get through with no problem, but I guess things have changed over on the other side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Well, I would just caution people about taking personal shots at anyone who isn't at the table.

Mr. Zimmer.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Cheap, Mark, really cheap.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I wasn't taking shots.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

You did.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I was commending Mr. Anderson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

How about an apology?

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I was commending Mr. Anderson's side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

I think Mr. Eyking is a little bit sensitive over there. Sorry, Mr. Chair, the member across the way is a little bit sensitive so that what he stated wasn't necessarily the case.

I think one thing we did hear from grain shippers and grain groups is that they didn't want to necessarily receive undue attention. They wanted better service and access for all commodities across the spectrum in Canada. I think that was made very clear by all groups and I think this amendment would be a negative to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

We have Liberal-2, reference 6510405. Shall it carry?

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1)

[Chair]

We will go to NDP-2, reference 6494466.

Madam Brosseau, please.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This amendment is in clause 6, to be amended by replacing line 22 on page 3 with the following, “way Company must each move at least 590,000”.

We have this amendment based on some suggestions by the Saskatchewan government. In a letter that was sent to us on April 4, they've said, on page 4:

...the minimum number of grain cars railways are required to deliver to 13,000 per week. The industry believes the target is attainable and realistic as long as the railways spot and deliver the rail cars at a rate which ensures proper coordination of sales and deliveries.

That is how we came up with this number for our amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you, very much.

I'll move first of all to Mr. Payne, please.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure this is a good amendment. The ministers have had discussions with the railways, the shippers, and so on, and they said that they could deliver about a million tonnes, which is about 500,000 each.

Then we heard from witnesses, and I just made a comment regarding the shippers. The difficulty is, they're already looking at facing that the railways are suggesting that they're going to cut back on the transportation of their products. So these other shippers, whether it's mining, or potash, or forestry.... So, trying to put more pressure on the railway to move additional grain would mean that other products are going to suffer, so I have a really difficult time even suggesting that we move that number up.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Allen.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I recognize that the railroad is suggesting to the government that maybe they can't do it, but I would suggest that their track record on telling us what they can and can't do isn't necessarily a good one.

The whole sense of this is that all of us have heard that somewhere between 20 million and 25 million tonnes—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, they've quoted a document that I don't have in my possession.

First, was that sent to the committee? Second, can I get a copy of that now for the purposes of debating the motion at hand?