Agriculture Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Pierre Riel]

—but we're not part of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I think this committee is focused on how we can encourage those larger retailers in the country to join this. We think this is important. We've heard consistent testimony. You've talked about the great relationship that you have with suppliers.

What is it that would be in a code that talks about just putting some parameters around a commercial relationship of respect and trust that would be concerning for you from a Costco perspective?

You mentioned that there is still some uncertainty. You now said that you have to—

[Pierre Riel]

I think it's the dispute part of it. Something goes bad, and a retailer or a vendor brings it to the code, and we cannot come to the conclusion of a negotiation or something. What mechanism is going to work?

That's what is not defined at this point, as far as I know. Maybe I missed something, but, as far as I know, it's not defined at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

What does your code say? You mentioned you have a code of ethics for Costco.

[Pierre Riel]

Our code is to do the right thing, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I want to lay in on that, because if you have a dispute with a vendor right now—

[Pierre Riel]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

—that supplies Costco, what is the mechanism to resolve that dispute?

[Pierre Riel]

We do have a vendor agreement. You can have arbitration, as an example. That's what you can do at a point in time. I don't remember the last time we won an arbitration, to be very honest.

There is something that I think is essential for the committee to understand. As a retailer, if I don't have goods to sell—I am not selling here this morning—I need to get the goods, so I need my vendors. The vendors are more important than we may have a tendency to believe, I think.

That's where it changed, the parameters around a vendor. You treat them fairly, they treat you back fairly, and, at the same time, you define prices.

When you define a price, you define the cost of transportation, the packaging costs, where the product is coming from and the utilities and rights. If everybody can put what I call a “menu of net landing costs” and define their cost, and it makes sense, why would Costco say no to the vendor? There is no good reason, so at the end of the day, all of that is part of the respect you build with your vendors.

There is the mechanism because you always have big vendors and, as a company, you do millions of dollars in sales. You really have to respect the contract you have in place, obviously, but those things, generally speaking, are solved on a face-to-face basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Everything you've said and everything this committee I think has been able to ascertain about how those conversations are going with the code of conduct I don't think would be mutually exclusive to what your values are as a company, so I guess we'll see where this lands.

Thank you, Mr. Riel, on behalf of the committee members. Thank you for being here today. We will let you enjoy the rest of your day and get back to doing the good work for Costco and its members.

Colleagues, I'm going to suspend just for—

[Pierre Riel]

Can I just add something?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Go ahead, Mr. Riel.

[Pierre Riel]

I would just like to say thank you again to my employees, my vendors and the members.

We have millions of members in Canada and roughly 4,000 vendors. Without them, Costco would not exist, so thank you, employees; thank you, vendors; and thank you, members. That's why we're here.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Mr. Riel.

We're going to suspend, colleagues, for just two minutes, and then we'll have Mr. Louis up for Bill C-355.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Colleagues, we're going to bring the meeting back to order.

Welcome to the second hour.

Colleagues, pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, January 31, 2024, and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 8, 2024, the committee is commencing its consideration of Bill C-355, an act to prohibit the export by air of horses for slaughter and to make related amendments to certain acts.

I would now like to welcome the sponsor of the bill, who is no stranger to this committee, Mr. Louis, the MP for Kitchener—Conestoga.

Mr. Louis, it's good to see you.

Of course, this is traditionally where we have an hour of opening panels from the private sponsor, so I'm going to allow you to make an opening statement.

Colleagues, we are pushed a little bit for time. I'm going to try to go until about 1:10 or 1:15, which should give us at least two rounds, if not more, to ask Mr. Louis questions, and then we'll go from there.

Mr. Louis, it's over to you.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

It feels great to be here in this room, but in a different chair.

I'm also honoured to be here in Ottawa as I appear before you on unceded Algonquin Anishinabe territory. Also, today we're celebrating Canada's Agricultural Day, in celebration of the hard-working farmers who feed us.

I'm honoured to appear before you, my colleagues on the agriculture committee, to speak on behalf of my private member's bill, C-355, which aims to prohibit the export of live horses for slaughter by air.

As a member of Parliament and a Canadian who values our special relationship with horses, I bring forth this bill, convinced that this practice must come to an end.

It's time for Canada to join other countries that have already banned the export of live horses for slaughter.

Horses hold a revered place in Canada's history, serving as steadfast companions in our fields and communities. From Mennonite families in my community relying on horses for traditional transportation and for farming to this day, to the iconic images of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, our bond with these majestic animals is deeply ingrained in our national identity.

Every year in Kitchener—Conestoga, in the township of Wilmot, our community hosts the New Hamburg fall fair. The first event of the fair is always the draft horse pull event, where the strength and grace of these majestic animals are showcased.

These are the same breeds of horses that are being exported for slaughter by air to be eaten raw as a high-end delicacy.

However, despite our reverence for horses, thousands are exported by air annually for slaughter, subjected to distressing conditions during transportation. It's unacceptable that these intelligent and sensitive companion animals endure such suffering, especially considering their significant roles in our history and our society.

Having engaged in consultations with stakeholders, I've worked hard to understand various perspectives. Bill C-355 specifically targets the export of live horses for slaughter by air, reflecting our commitment to animal welfare, while also acknowledging the importance of farming communities feeding Canadians.

Bill C-355 is a stand-alone piece of specific legislation that will not disrupt other livestock sectors, but focuses solely on banning the export of live horses for slaughter by air.

With approximately 2,600 Canadian horses exported for slaughter by air annually, this practice constitutes a relatively small industry. Most exports originate in western Canada, with horses raised on feedlots before enduring long journeys in cramped conditions.

With regard to the timeline to implementation, the bill allows for an 18-month implementation period to align with the natural life span of horses raised for slaughter.

This 18-month timeline strikes the balance between practical considerations and the commitment to ending this practice as soon as possible.

Since the beginning of this practice, I've worked inclusively, considering perspectives of stakeholders from various backgrounds. The bill has garnered support from both sides of the House, reflecting a shared belief in the importance of stopping the practice of exporting live horses for slaughter by air.

Canadians overwhelmingly support this initiative.

In conclusion, let's work together across party lines and put an end to this cruel practice.

I thank you for this opportunity, and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Louis. We'll get right to that.

We're going to start with Mr. Barlow for up to six minutes.

We go over to you, Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Louis, thanks for your presentation. Can you tell me what current regulations or laws, in the Health of Animals Act or the Live Animals Regulations of the International Air Transport Association, the current shippers and exporters are breaking?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I don't have those laws in front of me, so I cannot.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

That's because they're breaking none of the current laws. In fact, they are exceeding them quite handily.

Do you know the International Air Transport Association regulations on the size of the crates animals, horses specifically, should have in air transportation? Do you know the size of those crates under the IATA regulations?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I do. I know the horses are shipped in containers that are actually smaller than a single stall for a horse.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

In fact, the regulations for the IATA require a 1,300-pound horse to have about 14.2 square feet. Currently, the transportation crates used by Canada are almost twice that much at 22.85 square feet, so this is actually exceeding international rules.

Is the Canadian Food Inspection Agency present to inspect each load of horses before transportation?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is present until the wheels are up and the plane takes off.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

If they are being inspected to ensure that they meet all of the rules, what rules are being broken that would necessitate this bill's being brought forward?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I have respect for the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the work on food safety they do, their work on animal health and their work on plant health. They are going to be here to speak about that bill. They have appeared at this committee many times. I look forward to their contributions.