Evidence of meeting #31 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Director General, Conseil québécois de la musique
You could certainly ask them how they plan to support this community which should also, and with good reason, be supported.
11:40 a.m.
President, Local 406 of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
I personally find that there is a lack of logic here. We are trying to enhance the visibility of Canadian music on an international scale and over digital platforms, but we are preventing an entire category of artists from having access to this visibility by preventing them from recording. The effect that has is to favour one part of the industry over another.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
My Liberal Party colleague seems adept at asking questions he already knows the answers to.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
The student seems to have surpassed his teacher. I don't have much time for joking around. I would rather ask you some questions.
First of all, allow me to make a comment. The specialized music program has a small budget but it met a real need. For us, $1.3 million is a lot of money. For this government, accustomed to spending in the billions, it is not the biggest program. The same applies to Canadian Heritage.
Yesterday, artists and musicians testified and really proved that there is a need. They say they need it, and that is what allowed them to launch their careers. Without it, they would still be making music on their computers, in their bedrooms. I would imagine that in your briefcases and bags, you have a number of examples of these types of artists who today manage to make a living from their art, but who, without access to the funds under these programs, would not have managed to pursue their career. They would not have had the means to make their talents known. You also say that the specialized music program is a type of breeding ground for commercial music. It is an R and D sector. You have spoken of know-how, creativity, research and expertise. These terms lead us to believe that people producing specialized music really are specialists in the area of music development and that they inspire those who produce more commercial music.
I apologize if this is taking me some time, but I really want to understand the situation. So, it is an R and D sector. A study was carried out in 2007, as we saw in Le Devoir this morning, showing that this program performed better than all other Canada Music Fund programs. Everybody was happy. It met an incredible need within the complicated music ecosystem that Mr. Fortin was referring to. Then, all of a sudden, on July 31, the Canadian Heritage minister, a Conservative minister, announced, for the second year in a row, that he was abolishing an important program in the area of music development, in the complicated ecosystem of the arts and culture.
I know that politics are not your cup of tea, but you are Quebeckers, you are artists, you are citizens. Do you not believe it is for ideological reasons that this government has slashed, for a second consecutive year, spending on programs where the word “entertainment” did not exist? They hit where it hurt. The government is only interested in entertainment. It confuses the arts and culture with entertainment. There are key words in this particular program, we know that it is not for the masses. It is not a program designed for popular music. These two aspects are not necessarily about entertainment, are they? This is not pop music. Is that why this government announced the striking of this program on July 31?
11:45 a.m.
Director General, Conseil québécois de la musique
Ms. Lavallée, I would like to answer you with a question. Why were these programs eliminated? I have neither seen nor read the answer. Perhaps I will hear the answer next week. I do not know the reason.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
11:45 a.m.
Director General, Conseil québécois de la musique
You have to ask the department this question.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Both the department and cabinet.
Do you have any other comments?
11:45 a.m.
President, Local 406 of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
Ever since the cutbacks began, we have been looking for a reason that makes sense from an accounting or political stance. However, we really have not come up with anything. We are in fact starting to think that there is some type of ideology, some way of looking at culture that is behind this, something that we are perhaps not used to seeing. As you said, there appears to be a preference for mass culture rather than more specialized culture. There does not appear to be an overall view of Canadian culture with all of its various facets.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Would mass culture survive if we were to cut back on specialized music?
11:45 a.m.
President, Local 406 of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
As I said in my presentation, this is a complex ecosystem. Each part nourishes the other, one way or the other. I have a master's in electroacoustic composition; I am a guitarist and I play world music. My colleague Jean-François Denis has a PhD in electroacoustic composition.
11:45 a.m.
Director, DIFFUSION i MéDIA, Conseil québécois de la musique
Thank you!
11:45 a.m.
President, Local 406 of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
My training has helped me in all sectors.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
We know creativity can come in many forms. It's diverse and cannot be contained. It's not always just for entertainment and doesn't necessarily always have mass appeal. This program specifically encourages emerging artists who have different voices. I don't know, but perhaps that's a bit too threatening.
Certainly I want to lift this discussion away from the “why”, because after you've been in politics for a long time, sometimes the rationale has very little to do with why, but politics instead has a lot to do with it, which is what I want to ask about.
I notice there is an online petition, which, the last time I saw, had about 5,800 signatures. Aside from your asking why and wanting to get it restored, I want to get a feeling from you and the people you represent and you speak with, your friends and colleagues, of the kinds of activities you are doing to look for ways to have the funding replaced, or to find some ways of continuing to encourage the young artists so they do not feel the 100 grants or $2 million are gone.
So what political action are you taking, at least that you can share publicly? You may not want to tell me, and that's okay.
11:50 a.m.
Director, DIFFUSION i MéDIA, Conseil québécois de la musique
That is a very good question, and there are many ways to answer it.
The announcement was subtle. Overnight, we were told that everything had been completely cut. That doesn't give us very much time to reorganize. I do not know how my colleagues here are feeling, but it is as though we are in a state of shock. What do you do after a fire occurs? We are thinking about how we can get through this. If we had known that we would have to move two or three months in advance, we could perhaps have organized ourselves, but for the time being this is impossible. We are in reaction mode.
We are here today; we have met. There is a great deal of collegiality in the sector because we all know that music is a big ship. Specialized music, symphony orchestras, opera houses, folk songs, rock, we are all in the same boat. If the boat sinks, we all have a few minutes before we all find ourselves in the water. Whether we are working in the specialized music field or whether we represent more commercial musicians, everyone will tell you that we all need each other. This collegiality exists.
That does not answer your question, which is a very interesting one.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
The reason I asked that is I notice that in Ontario—I don't know about Quebec—the arts groups are looking at a project they did quite a few years ago called Arts Vote, which showcased the number of artists who were very engaged as citizens, politically engaged.
I don't know whether that's an area you want to consider. Certainly with respect to the diversity funds, are the people who have obtained these funds in the past few years speaking out? I see that a few of them have been talking about it. Could all of them collectively post something online so that we can let people know that here are the people who have received these diversity grants, and as a result they have launched their careers and the grants have actually made a huge difference?
11:50 a.m.
Director General, Conseil québécois de la musique
The Conseil québécois de la musique has put a lot of information on its website. We have included all of the press releases that we have received from groups, associations and political parties. We have also included newspaper articles that we were able to find; there is a hyperlink for these articles. The texts which we are presenting today will be there. People who wish to obtain information can easily get it through the site.
Upcoming and young artists are involved in the Conseil québécois de la musique. Moreover, we have an award, the Opus award, which is for the Discovery of the Year, that we hand out every year along with the bursary. I would like to clarify that although we are talking about specialized music, we are not always referring to extremely specialized niche music. In my opening statement, I said that many of the recordings that my colleagues here have made have been nominated, have been finalists and even winners of the Juno award, the ADISQ prize, the Felix award, the Opus award. Every year, we hand out 30 or so Opus awards to our members and there are 6 categories for the recordings. Next year, in 2010, I do not know whether we are going to be able to hand out these awards if there are cutbacks, because there will hardly be any more recordings.
It is important to point out that the Canada Council for the Arts does not automatically hand out grants to anyone who applies. There are a lot of applicants and few are chosen. There is good quality at the outset because selection is done by a jury of peers. I know that Effendi prepared a long list of their recordings that were nominated by various juries.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you.
Mr. Del Mastro, for the last question, please.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for appearing today.
The member from the Liberal Party, Mr. Rodriguez, asked if anybody had been consulted. All of you indicated that you had not been consulted. Just as a bit of background, there were over 500 groups consulted prior to the re-extension of the Canada Music Fund. The groups represented everything from individual artists all the way up to provincial ministries of culture right across the country. So there was broad consultation, and there will be witnesses who will come forward to speak about the consultation that did occur.
I guess before this was re-extended, we had a period of uncertainty in the music industry. I'm really surprised by some of the comments. Ms. Gamache, you indicated that it seems like the federal government doesn't want to support the music industry. I'd say $138 million over five years is quite a bit of support. The Canada Council grants $9 million out of $30 million for specialized music. Almost a third of everything they put into music is going into specialized music. Sixty percent of the musical diversity fund applicants also receive funding from other areas of the music funding portfolio.
I just want to refer to some of the quotes that I have from various groups, because I'm not hearing any of that. I suppose I'm surprised. Ms. Lavallée indicated that she thinks it might have something to do with an ideology, but then her ideology was to vote against the largest budget in support of arts and culture in the history of this country. That was her ideology. So I'm surprised by that.
If we look at what some of the individuals said, we see that Pierre Rodrigue, the president of MUSICACTION, said to the Minister:
As president of MUSICACTION and vice-president of Astral Media Radio, allow me to congratulate you, Mr. Minister, on the confidence you are displaying in the Canada Music Fund. This announcement is even more essential, as it comes at a time when the record industry's business model is being questioned.
Solange Drouin, director general and vice-president of ADISQ, said that the current grants were scheduled to sunset in April 2010, so they are very happy. They were eager to know what the new grants would be.
Heather Ostertag, president and CEO of FACTOR, said:
We are fortunate to have strong leadership and vision from our current government which recognizes the importance of supporting sustainable business models and believes in the cultural component and how it weaves itself into the overall Canadian identity.
Duncan McKie, president and CEO of the Canadian Independent Music Association, said that there was no direct funding until this year for the development of the digital component of the music business. He said these international and digital market development initiatives are much-needed programs and the benefits they will induce will support many artists in multiple genres as they create worldwide markets for their performances and products. He said he appreciates the government's efforts in this regard and wishes to restate their support for the CMF renewal.
Now, I recognize that we live in a country that is a democracy and the views within any given industry are going to be as diverse as the views of Canadians broadly. When we've got a fund that is $1.4 million a year that's part of a much, much smaller fund and we have a government that has put more money into the Canada Music Fund, the Canada Council for the Arts, the arts in general, and performances across the country, I guess my question is twofold. One, would you agree that it's important that we're looking forward and trying to position Canadian artists so that they can reach globally and are current with the digital market development initiatives? Or do you think it's more important that we look backwards?
Noon
Vice-President, Effendi Records Inc.
It is all well and good to invest in digital, but you have to have a quality recording at the outset. We therefore need assistance to go into the studio and hire musicians.
My dear sir, the international outreach of specialized music sometimes precedes that of singers or musicians making popular Canadian music. Electroacoustic, jazz and classical music artists already have international careers and do not necessarily sell a significant number of albums in Canada, or even abroad. However, these recordings enable them to have an international career. If the funds subsidizing the distribution and recording is eliminated, these artists will no longer have the recording enabling them to promote themselves and perform internationally.
