Evidence of meeting #102 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was media.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Mr. Coteau. I think I highlighted that when I responded earlier on, but it is a valid point of order. The minister can answer in whichever language she chooses.
Mr. Noormohamed, is this something new, or are we going over this again?
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
It is something new on a related matter.
As Mr. Coteau has pointed out, it is reprehensible for anyone to demand or suggest that one language be used.
9:05 a.m.
Rachel Thomas
I will be clipping that.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
You're already clipping...? That's great.
May I finish what I was going to say?
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What I find particularly reprehensible is the question as to why somebody has chosen to use a particular language. It's one thing to make the demand. It's another thing to ask why a minister chose to use a particular language.
This speaks to something very dangerous and very irresponsible on the part of the Conservatives. I think it would be valuable and important for Mrs. Thomas to retract that assertion, because I think it is in the interest of all of us in this room to not play silly games around the use of our official languages.
9:05 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Madam Chair, just for Mrs. Thomas's education, having been brought up in an English environment and having learned French in school, there are numerous times when you have a vocabulary in one particular language that allows you to speak more easily in that language. That is the principle of official bilingualism.
For the Conservatives to put in question official bilingualism is absolutely reprehensible, and I just can't believe how radical and extreme this party has become since the member for Carleton took over.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you.
I am going to now suggest that I do not want to entertain any further points of order on this issue. I have ruled, as the chair, that the member, Mrs. Thomas, has a question on the floor. She can question the minister, and the minister can answer in whichever language she chooses. Let's not carry on with this for too much longer. Thank you.
Mrs. Thomas, go ahead with your questions, please.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Minister, when I asked you about the amount of money the CBC would get, you said that they have one-third of all the journalists in the country. We know that the draft regulations suggest that the money from the $100-million fund that Google is generating will be divvied up according to the number of journalists who are in each news business.
I am assuming, then, that the CBC will get one-third of the $100 million, which is $33 million. Do you believe that's just when we consider the local newspapers, ethnic newspapers, BIPOC newspapers and indigenous newspapers that will get only a small pittance, and when in fact your government claims that this bill is about supporting local news and small outlets?
That is not the case. One-third of the amount will go to the CBC. According to the PBO, 75% of the total will go to the big players, such as the CBC, such as Rogers, such as Bell and such as Torstar.
How will this bill support local, ethnic and BIPOC news outlets?
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Pascale St-Onge Liberal Brome—Missisquoi, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm going to answer in my mother tongue because I have a lot of respect for my colleague's questions. I want to make sure that I'm using the right vocabulary, answering in the right way and being clear in my response.
As I said, the final regulations will be published before the act comes into force, which is scheduled for December 19. We are taking into consideration the fact that CBC/Radio-Canada is a major player in journalism and that it is important for a portion of the $100 million from Google to also go to local, independent and indigenous media, in short, all the media my colleague named. We also want to support them, because they are essential to democracy, and we're going to make sure it happens.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I understand your good intentions. Unfortunately, they're misplaced. Those local media outlets will receive very little and possibly nothing at all.
This bill has killed them. Big tech has colluded with big government to do away with news in this country. There will be less choice for Canadians and less access for Canadians. It's a shame.
Let's not forget the fact that, actually, Google isn't signing on to Bill C-18. It's actually been granted an exemption.
Minister, when you celebrate the success of Bill C-18, let's look at this. Facebook walked away. It's not carrying news anymore, so it's not under Bill C-18. Google is the second one the bill applied to. It applied for an exemption. You entered into a backroom deal with Google, and it got what it wanted. Bill C-18 technically applies to no one. It's an absolute failure. It's a boondoggle, Minister. Let's be really clear about the facts here.
My next question is with regard to Laith Marouf, who received $130,000 from the heritage department. He used that money to perpetuate vile comments towards the Jewish community and towards the francophone community, which you claim to defend. Meanwhile, that $130,000 has been outstanding—
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Mrs. Thomas, I don't think the minister ever defended it. I think you got the answer about things being done, the sequence in the department and its going to the courts right now. I don't think there was any sense that anybody condoned this.
Can you please get to your question without being misleading? Thank you.
Mr. Noormohamed.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
I have a point of order, Madam Chair.
It would be wonderful if Mrs. Thomas might address her comments through the chair rather than to the witness.
Also, perhaps she might not raise her voice and scream unnecessarily at the minister when we're trying to have a respectful conversation here.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Minister, $130,000 was given to Laith Marouf. He continues to hold that money, even though he was told by your department to pay it back more than 16 months ago. He continues to use that money to perpetuate his vile conduct towards the Jewish community. Just a few days ago, he was out on social media putting some of the most heinous comments up for the public to observe.
Your department has sat there and done nothing. You sit here with a smirk on your face.
Through you, Chair, the minister sits here with a smirk on her face.
9:10 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
I have a point of order. Direct comments through the chair, please.
9:10 a.m.
An hon. member
It's disgusting.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'll have order right now, please.
I do not want people shouting at each other.
Mrs. Thomas, I think you have gone a little too far. You are actually berating the witness and you are misleading the committee at the moment.
Go ahead and ask your question, whatever it is. Thank you.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Chair, I'm simply making an observation with regard to the conduct of the witness, who happens to be the minister.
Chair, she does sit there with a smirk on her face right now.
9:10 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Everyone is speaking at the same time. I would like some order in this committee, please.
Peter, was it you who said “point of order” first? Go ahead, and then we'll go to Mr. Noormohamed.
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
I find Mrs. Thomas' behaviour at this committee....
She said a few weeks ago that she wanted to make this committee “hell”. It does a disservice to Canadians. It does a disservice to the Conservative Party. She needs to stop acting in such a childish, immature way.