Evidence of meeting #115 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was company.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Geneviève Desjardins
Mirko Bibic  President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.
Robert Malcolmson  Executive Vice-President, Chief Legal and Regulatory Officer, BCE Inc.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Good afternoon, all.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 115 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

You know the rules, but I'll quickly tell them to you.

Although the parties have not mandated us to wear masks, it's always advisable that you do so to prevent infection and respiratory illnesses. Second, I want you to remember that you are not allowed to take photographs of the screen or any pictures at all during the meeting, but it will be available on the website later on. I want to remind you of a very important thing. The interpreters can sometimes have a lot of harm done to their ears, so if you have a device, do not put it next to your microphone and make sure that it doesn't interfere with static or crackling so that we don't assault the ears of our interpreters.

Today we are meeting with BCE Inc. We have two witnesses here today. We have Mirko Bibic, president and chief executive officer, here by video conference. We also have Robert Malcolmson, executive vice-president and chief legal and regulatory officer, who is also here by video conference.

The rules are basically that you have five minutes, Mr. Bibic, to make your opening statement, and then we will follow up with questions and answers from the floor. I will give you a 30-second shout-out so that you can have 30 seconds to wrap up. Remember, even if you cannot make your full statement in that five minutes, you're going to be able to expand on your statement when the question and answer period comes.

I shall begin—

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Go ahead, Ms. Thomas.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Thank you.

Very quickly before we jump in, I just want to confirm something.

Ms. Catherine Tait has been asked to come to this committee and testify. She's been putting us off for a little while now. I'm just curious if there's a confirmed date as to when Ms. Tait will be appearing here.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Yes, I think there is. The clerk will tell us.

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Geneviève Desjardins

It is May 7.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

Mr. Bibic, you have five minutes. Please begin.

3:35 p.m.

Mirko Bibic President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and members of the committee.

I had hoped to join you last month prior to the committee rescheduling our meeting, so I'm glad we're having this important conversation today.

Since Bell acquired CTV in 2011, the global media industry has drastically changed. The industry is in flux due to technological disruption, changing viewer habits, shifting advertiser demand and vigorous competition from foreign web giants that are not subject to the same costly regulations as Canadian broadcasters.

Half of all households will not subscribe to traditional TV in 2026. Meanwhile, streaming revenues, already in the billions, rose 14% last year and will increase by an additional $500 million this year, disproportionately benefiting foreign web giants. Audiences now expect around-the-clock access to news, and media companies have had to adjust.

Some have sought to distort the facts about Bell's restructuring. We should all agree that facts matter, so here are some important facts.

First, Bell continues to invest in news and media. Since I became CEO in 2020, Bell Media has invested more than $1 billion in capital to better serve our viewers, not to mention the additional $22 billion invested in world-leading wireless and fibre Internet networks among other customer enhancements. This is on top of the almost $1.7 billion a year we invest in content. Despite these massive investments, CTV conventional stations lost more than $180 million last year, and Bell Media loses more than $40 million a year on news alone.

Second, Bell Media far exceeds all its regulatory obligations for local news. We air more than 25,000 hours of local news per year, and that's 150% more than the CRTC requires.

Third, CTV News Channel, CP24 and BNN, air 20,000 hours of news per year, and that's 300% more than the CRTC requires.

Fourth, CTV publishes approximately three times more digital news stories on an average day than when Bell acquired it 13 years ago.

Fifth, CTV now airs more original national newscasts than at any point in the network's 60-plus year history.

Sixth, for the first time ever, CTV National News will soon have dedicated journalists telling stories from all 10 provinces and 35% more correspondents than prior to 2023.

Seven: We are investing more than ever in francophone content. In 2021, we launched Noovo Info. Think about this: During a challenging time, Bell Media built a newsroom from the ground up. We hired a team of francophone journalists to broadcast news in five markets across Québec. Since then, the newsroom has grown 25%.

And finally, eight: Our Crave streaming platform offers almost 11,000 hours of French-language content. What’s more, our Rouge FM program Véronique et les Fantastiques recently announced that it would play only French-language music.

No other Canadian media company has made investments of this scale, but it is not enough to overcome the challenges facing our industry.

As a result, Bell made the difficult decision to implement workforce reductions through departures and the elimination of vacant positions. Less than 10%, or 440 positions, were at Bell Media. We know this is difficult for those affected, and we're supporting them with fair severance packages, career transition services and continued access to health benefits. We have also met all our obligations under collective bargaining agreements.

Bell is not alone. In the past year, the CBC announced it will cut 800 positions, TVA has eliminated close to 550 positions and Corus has reduced its workforce by at least 15%. Last year, Telus announced 6,000 job reductions, and Rogers has also restructured. The list is long and includes Shopify, Canada Goose, Lightspeed, Postmedia, Metroland, SaltWire, Paramount, Disney, Microsoft, Apple and Meta, as well as others in the U.S.

Let me be clear that we're not asking for special protections. We're asking for a level playing field with global web media giants. The regulatory framework has been too slow to adjust to the massive challenges we're seeing. The Online Streaming Act took three years to develop, and it has still not been implemented.

Bell pays almost $2 billion a year in federal regulatory fees and contributions. In contrast, Amazon, Disney, Netflix and others, each many times larger than Bell, have not paid anything despite the billions of dollars in revenue they earn from Canadians.

I hope to use our two hours together to discuss constructive solutions so that future generations have access to stories that reflect them and our country.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Mr. Bibic. You're right on time.

I want to remind everyone, before we go to the question-and-answer segment, that you are to address your questions and answers through the chair. Thank you very much.

We will begin with the Conservatives for six minutes. That is six minutes for questions and answers, not six minutes for each. Please remember that, and try to be as concise as you can in your answers.

For the Conservatives, we have Rachael Thomas.

Please go ahead for six minutes, Rachael.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Thank you.

Mr. Bibic, Bell has received a pile of money from the government through enhanced media funds, spectrum subsidies and COVID paycheques, and, of course, various tax credits have been added to that as well.

I am just wondering what the exact dollar figure is...since 2015.

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.

Mirko Bibic

I wouldn't have the exact figure since 2015 at my immediate disposal.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Would you be able to tell us the amount for the last five years?

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.

Mirko Bibic

I couldn't tell you that either.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

What about for the last year?

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.

Mirko Bibic

For which components? There would have been no wage subsidy dollars in the last year, because we're well past COVID.

In terms of the Canada Media Fund, Robert, do you have that information?

3:40 p.m.

Robert Malcolmson Executive Vice-President, Chief Legal and Regulatory Officer, BCE Inc.

I don't have that at my fingertips, but we can certainly provide it to the committee, if you wish.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

We would appreciate that. Please send it to the clerk, and we will distribute it.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Just to clarify, I'm asking for the total dollar amount that has been received from the Government of Canada since 2015, and that it be tabled with the committee.

I'll highlight a few figures that I found. Not everything is disclosed online, but I did discover, through poring over documents, that Bell has received over $260 million through spectrum projects, $122 million in pandemic subsidies—even though Bell performed at its best during that time—and a healthy portion of the $600-million media bailout. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been given to Bell.

Regardless, here we are discussing the cutting of 6,100 jobs between June 2023 and February 2024. I find that rather rich.

Can you tell me how much Bell Media is worth?

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.

Mirko Bibic

There is no current valuation of Bell Media as a separate entity within all of BCE now. In terms of—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

I'll just clarify, Mr. Bibic—

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.

Mirko Bibic

Let me address some of these issues. I'd like to clarify—

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Excuse me, please. Order.

Do you want to clarify your question, Mrs. Thomas? Go ahead.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Yes, I'll just clarify that I wasn't asking about Bell Media. I was just asking about Bell. How much is Bell worth?

3:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, BCE Inc.

Mirko Bibic

We could look at the market cap of Bell today, if you're asking about the market cap. I'm sure while we talk, Robert can dig that up in 10 seconds.