Evidence of meeting #59 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was imperial.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
That wasn't really a response to the question, but thank you.
What about the tailings ponds that are located right next to the Athabasca River? As we've heard from Ms. May, clearly they must be seeping into the Athabasca.
1:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Alberta Energy Regulator
There are extensive monitoring programs around all of the tailings ponds in the region. There's an annual report on the performance of those tailings ponds that is public and that can be accessed and reviewed by anyone. It is a requirement that the operators of all those tailings facilities communicate those to the impacted communities.
In addition to that, a five-year review requires companies to assess their tailings and present an updated strategy on how they're managing and—
1:30 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
What you're telling us is that if they are leaking, that's fine, because there's a process to tell people about it, even though that process to tell people about it hasn't been working and nobody has been told about it.
The Imperial-Kearl joint review panel noted that the location of this tailings pond, which has been leaking for almost a year, is on top of poor soil and is likely to allow tailings water to seep into groundwater.
It also noted that the seepage from this pond would impact the Firebag River if not controlled. The panel therefore recommended that a detailed hydrogeological investigation be required as part of the detailed dike design, pursuant to Alberta's dam safety regulations. However, AER's approval for this tailings pond does not include the detailed hydrological investigation condition.
Why was this recommendation by the joint review panel not followed?
1:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Alberta Energy Regulator
These are all parts of what will be reviewed in the investigation that was done on whether Imperial has met the expectations of the operations as required. It's also part of the review that the board has undertaken to look at whether we performed the way we should perform. It's at that time that the detailed answers to all of those questions will be available.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Thank you very much, Chair.
Mr. Pushor, we've heard a lot about this report and the investigation that is ongoing. Is that going to be public when it is complete?
1:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Alberta Energy Regulator
Our investigation of Imperial and Imperial's conduct will be public as soon as we've completed it and/or the prosecutions office has completed any work they may undertake in relation to potential prosecutions.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
When that's complete, could you table it with this committee? Would that be something that's appropriate to ask?
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Thank you very much for that.
It's been interesting. We've heard a whole host of testimony here, and there's a lot of what I would suggest is a lack of understanding around some of the dynamics associated with the energy industry itself. As somebody who represents a large rural constituency in Alberta that has a host of...not oil sands development, but gas, oil and heavy oil, I appreciate your providing some of the context.
Mr. Pushor, I followed closely the status of the industry and your appointment. Previously you worked for the Government of Saskatchewan and were involved in a number of roles there. You came in to help restore some of the confidence that has been talked about, to help build plans to build back some of that trust. I would just note that it has gotten pretty political. Certainly one party represented around this table has tried to pin the blame on a particular provincial government, but there was an NDP premier who was in charge prior to the current Alberta government.
I would just make the general observation here that we all around this table, I would hope, want to see what's best for our country, what's best to ensure that indigenous communities are given safe, clean...great opportunities to both prosper and engage in reconciliation and everything associated with that.
We heard from indigenous communities specifically, and this will be a question for both Mayor Bowman and Mr. Pushor in the two minutes I have left. I will give you each about a minute.
There has been a distinction made between oil sands development and tailings. There is an ongoing concern about the management of tailings in terms of a plan and remediation, and ultimately tailings are the reason we're all here. We're trying to get answers related to a leak.
I will ask you both how to address the larger issue of tailings when it comes to the confidence that needs to be restored in the energy industry, specifically with oil sands development. I will start with Mr. Pushor for about 45 seconds and then Mr. Bowman for about 45 seconds as well.
1:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Alberta Energy Regulator
First and foremost, this is a very broad conversation that needs to occur among all parties, including both levels of government, Alberta and Canada. Those conversations must include the communities that live on and occupy that land. As a regulator, we typically participate in those conversations, mostly for technical expertise and our experience and views on the current system and opportunities to move forward. It's an important conversation. It's a conversation we look forward to and look forward to having a voice in.
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
1:35 p.m.
Mayor, Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo
Thank you.
From my perspective in the municipality, it comes down to engagement. It comes down to communication.
We go to all of our rural communities regularly—the most recent has been Fort Chipewyan—for this circumstance. What we hear is that they're not getting the information and the details of that information as quickly as they need it. For ourselves, we've been doing double the testing on the raw water coming into the reservoir ponds and testing that water to make sure that the water that goes to the community is clean and good water, and we've been communicating that to the community, whether it's through the chiefs, the elders or just community members for engagement.
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
It pretty much is, yes. Thanks.
Last but not least, we have Mr. McLeod.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, I want to bring forward a motion, and it reads:
That pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and following the toxic leak of tailing ponds and Imperial Oil and Alberta Energy Regulator's failure to provide appropriate answers to this Committee; the lack of action taken and for putting the lives, health and safety of Indigenous communities at risk. That the committee: (a) Invite the CEO of Imperial Oil and the Alberta Energy Regulator for a two-hour meeting in October 2023 and provide this Committee with updates on what steps they took since April 2023 to address the issues resulting from the tailing ponds leak never happens again; (b) That during these meetings imperial Oil and Alberta Energy Regulator provide the committee with the documents that support the actions they took. (c) That these meetings take place in October 2023, that these meetings be televised, and that the evidence gathered during these meetings be taken into consideration during the study of Freshwater.
Mr. Chair, this motion has also been translated.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Mr. McLeod, are you just giving notice or are you tabling the motion?
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
This is unusual, because we got notice of the motion that references the testimony of the witnesses pretty much as the meeting was starting. It seems a little in bad faith to move a motion referencing that we didn't get answers from the witnesses before the witnesses had even started to testify. That just seems a little bit odd. We actually got notice of this motion some time ago, largely as this meeting was starting.
To the Liberal member, before we vote on this motion, I'm curious. Did you know what the witnesses were going to say before the meeting even started? You may have, but it does seem odd to move a motion—
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
—referencing you are unhappy with the testimony before the testimony is even given and before we've even had chance to ask questions.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
It's not a Q and A here, but we'll go to Mr. Kurek.
What I would say, though, is that since we're nearing the end of the meeting, we can continue to discuss this motion on Thursday. We're done at 1:45 p.m. because of technical issues, but it doesn't mean we can't pick it up again on Thursday afternoon.
Go ahead, Mr. Kurek.