Evidence of meeting #25 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
I’m sorry.
You have no time. You managed to ask that very complicated question at 6:58 of your time. It is an important question, so I am going to allow all of the witnesses to answer. But no further questions at the present time.
December 13th, 2006 / 4:10 p.m.
Bloc
4:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Dental Association
Yes. I would like to take the issue back to the adoption of electronic communications in dental offices. One of the things we can expect to happen as these events unfold is....
We are finding that the younger practitioners, people coming out of dental schools and going into practice, are making attempts to move to paperless offices. They have very little interest in following the patterns of practice that my generation had. We're going to see that whole thing tilt over time. It is certainly coming as a force.
4:15 p.m.
Chair, Committee on Ethics, Canadian Medical Association
I agree very much with Mr. Poston's comments. The issue is how the information is used once it's collected. Aggregate information about how drugs are being used in a community can certainly help people who are planning services in that community, and it can improve the state of health in that community.
What we worry about is when the data becomes nominal, even in terms of naming the physician, if not his patients. For example, if a physician is a high prescriber of HIV-type drugs, it becomes known who his patients are. That can be a potential problem for privacy. As mentioned earlier, it can also leave people open to being targeted for certain high-pressure marketing initiatives.
We would prefer that information be regarded as a subset of personal information, so there can be reasonable balances of the legitimate uses of that information versus these kinds of marketing commercial uses.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
A voice
Close.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Yes, it was close.
As you know—maybe not—when someone in a law office, a lawyer or a staff person, reveals confidential information about someone's file and the client finds out about it, that is reported to the law society. That lawyer--and it might have even been his or her staff—is in big, big trouble. They could be disbarred; they certainly could be reprimanded. In other words, there is very strict self-regulation by the law society—far more strict regulation than the government on this sort of thing.
My question is whether the dental college, the medical college, the pharmaceutical college, or whatever they're called—I mean, we're talking about government regulation. I believe the law society is completely self-regulatory on these sorts of things. If private information is revealed, that lawyer is in big trouble.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Dental Association
Absolutely.
It's exactly the same in dentistry. The self-regulation aspect is very clear on that, and it is forcefully enforced.
4:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Pharmacists Association
I would further add from pharmacy that there are strong sanctions such as codes of ethics and professional standards of practice that require that in law. Certainly colleges of pharmacy are extremely strict in terms of enforcement.
There's an added important piece to be considered with respect to pharmacies because of our location in the community. Pharmacists are probably the most accessible health care providers. Unlike my colleagues, you don't have to book an appointment to see one of my members. They are very accessible. If a community pharmacy is known not to treat information in a confidential manner, the word soon goes around the community and that pharmacy is essentially out of business. So there's an additional sanction over and above the strict legislation that applies from a College of Pharmacy perspective that is enforced by the local community.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I find all of this very interesting, because if you talk to someone working in a retail store, a convenience store, or it could be anyplace—I've given the example of a dry cleaner who gets lists and all kinds of personal information about people—the worst that can happen to those people, if they're ever found out, and I'm not convinced that some of them can even be found out, is that the Privacy Commissioner can release their name. Whether it's a big corporation or whether it's the local dry cleaner, that's all that can happen to them, which most of the witnesses who have come before us have said is very serious, but in all your cases, including the law society, you can no longer practise.
So I guess I'm asking you to go beyond your professions. You stipulate, or your associations or your colleges stipulate, penalties. The evidence that has seemed to come forward is that the worst penalty that you can have, other than going to court, I suppose, in some tort matter or contract matter, is to have your name released. That's it.
Can anybody comment on that?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Can I also ask the CMA to comment? You didn't have a chance to comment on the first part.
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Committee on Ethics, Canadian Medical Association
Thank you.
Again, the colleges of physicians and surgeons right across the country have as part of their code of conduct the ultimate importance of keeping patient information confidential, and we would be subject to fines—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I knew all that. I just wanted to get into this next issue as to your recommendations for PIPEDA.
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Legal Services and Chief Privacy Officer, Canadian Medical Association
If I understand the question, are you seeking more the remedy component of it?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Legal Services and Chief Privacy Officer, Canadian Medical Association
If I understand what you're saying, the remedy for these self-governing professions is on a more severe scale than what you're saying is the remedy in—
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Legal Services and Chief Privacy Officer, Canadian Medical Association
So are you asking us, do we recommend that PIPEDA's remedies be more akin to the professional types of remedies?
