Information & Ethics Committee on May 10th, 2007

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Yes, I'd like to move an additional amendment--and it's not even mine; it's what Mr. Martin brought forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

You have the floor, Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

The amendment we would add is that this would be done by June 8, I believe you said. So I'm moving that the addition of a timeframe of June 8 be added to the motion.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's fine; I agree.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Is that in order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Well, yes, it's in order. I just want to get the precise wording. Are you suggesting that the committee report to the House by June 8, or are you suggesting that the committee--

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No, the committee will gather evidence by June 8.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

We would gather evidence by June 8. That doesn't mean we would be finished with the matter.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

That's right. It could go to a report after that.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Okay, let's call a vote.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It's your own suggestion, Mr. Martin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

A motion has been made to amend the motion by adding the words “and gather evidence by June 8, 2007”.

Am I correctly stating the motion?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

That would be correct, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

The motion is receivable. Is there any debate on the motion?

We'll go to Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chairman, with due respect to my colleague, I think I'm going to oppose that, and the reason is that we're now discussing--

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Ah, filibustering again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Go ahead, Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

--more than the one violation, the apparent violation that was suggested initially, which has now been amended, because there may be other violations.

There may be violations by the Conservative government. There may or may not be, you know. There may or may not be violations by the former Liberal government. There may or may not be violations by the Globe and Mail reporter. How did this reporter all of a sudden get a report, take the blacked-out items, and put it on the front page of the Globe and Mail? How did that happen? Does that violate the act? If you look at section 15 of the act, it may well have violated the Access to Information Act.

I mean, you read some of these sections, and I don't know whether they've violated the act. We'd have to get legal people in here to give us advice. All of that has to be done.... I gather we're saying that the report has to be made by June 8. The committee's work would end on June 8. Is that the proposal?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

The evidence would be gathered by June 8.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Okay, but look at some of these sections, just at the opening subsection of section 15(1):

The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains information the disclosure of which could reasonably be expected to be injurious to the conduct of international affairs, the defence of Canada or any state allied or associated with Canada or the detection, prevention or suppression of subversive or hostile activities, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, any such information

Then I'll just read the first one:

(a) relating to military tactics or strategy, or relating to military exercises or operations undertaken in preparation for hostilities or in connection with the detection, prevention or suppression of subversive or hostile activities;

I mean, we now, conceivably, could be on to something else, because we're looking at all potential violations. Quite frankly, it may be that the Globe and Mail has violated the provisions of the Access to Information Act. I don't know if they did. They may not have, but we sure as heck have to look at it, and we have to do it by June 8.

So I don't know, Mr. Chair. I think this could be a very extensive investigation if this motion carries. We could spend a lot of time on this thing. It's a very serious allegation. We have to look at, now, all potential violations involving this topic. I would submit, with due respect to my colleague, that it may be impossible to do that by June 8.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you, sir.

Is there any further debate on the motion by Mr. Wallace to add the phrase, “and gather evidence by June 8, 2007”?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Based on the arguments I've heard, Mr. Chair, I'm going to withdraw the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Does the committee give unanimous consent to withdraw the amendment?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

There is no unanimous consent.

Is there any further debate?